Quote:Let me ask you something, What's the difference between being a bond-servant and being a serf under a feudal system?

Lord is synonymous with master...

Servitude of either kind is immoral and egregious

(July 25, 2021 at 5:00 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(July 25, 2021 at 4:09 pm)Huggy Bear Wrote: Let me ask you something, What's the difference between being a bond-servant and being a serf under a feudal system?

Lord is synonymous with master...

So your god is just as immoral as humans. Got it.

Yeah, there is absolutely zero room for nuance. Kidnapping someone and forcing them into servitude was punishable by death, making servitude strictly voluntary.

If I owned all the farmland and you needed a place to live, what kind of agreement do you think we would reach that would benefit us both?

Quote:Yeah, there is absolutely zero room for nuance. Kidnapping someone and forcing them into servitude was punishable by death, making servitude strictly voluntary.

There is no nuance to be found. Taking advantage of someone's poverty or lack of economic or social status is just as evil as kidnapping them and forcing them to work

Quote:If I owned all the farmland and you needed a place to live, what kind of agreement do you think we would reach that would benefit us both?

Taking advantage of people poverty and lack of resources is just as evil as kidnapping them and forcing them to work

You can make all the excuses you like the bible teaches an immoral practice

(July 24, 2021 at 12:08 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(July 23, 2021 at 10:51 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: The Old Testament sucks on the issue once again. New Testament doesn't fix it.

I'd be curious to know your thoughts on this article.

Here's a quote from the early days of my denomination back in the 1800's; I believe it echoes a similar passage from biblical commentator Matthew Henry in the late 1600's: "Eve was created from a rib taken from the side of Adam, signifying that she was not to control him as the head, nor to be trampled under his feet as an inferior, but to stand by his side as an equal, to be loved and protected by him."

[I posted my reply here since it belongs in this thread.]


Well, sure. The article argues pretty well that Jesus elevated that status of women somewhat. My knee jerk response is to say the Old Testament ideas were seriously bad to begin with. (As many ancient ideas are.) And regardless of what "elevating" of women Jesus achieved, there are still the bad OT ideas that vilify women's sexuality. I understand that most Christians reflexively ignore most of it (as they should).

But, in the end, there those ideas are. They made it into the Bible. Now believers read that stuff and think it reflects reality, and that it's therefore truer than all arguments to the contrary. Which leads some to ask what Boru asked: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny? The answer is, unfortunately yes. Or at least it can and sometimes does.

I don't think all Christians are misogynists. Plenty aren't. Like, vast numbers of them aren't. But like I said before: if you're a Christian, and you want to justify your misogyny, the Bible is a great resource.

The guud buuk is valuable resource for plenty of asshole tactics, and backing up appalling, detestable, outdated notions.

(July 25, 2021 at 5:44 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:Yeah, there is absolutely zero room for nuance. Kidnapping someone and forcing them into servitude was punishable by death, making servitude strictly voluntary.

There is no nuance to be found. Taking advantage of someone's poverty or lack of economic or social status is just as evil as kidnapping them and forcing them to work

Quote:If I owned all the farmland and you needed a place to live, what kind of agreement do you think we would reach that would benefit us both?

Taking advantage of people poverty and lack of resources is just as evil as kidnapping them and forcing them to work

You can make all the excuses you like the bible teaches an immoral practice

So what's your solution?

Btw, do you own or rent your home

Quote:So what's your solution?

If your objective is to help them. Then simply let them stay rather than taking advantage of them.

Quote:Btw, do you own or rent your home

I own my home. But even if I lived in a rented apartment that's still immoral as the very concept of a landlord is predatory, Oh and asking for rent is not the same as directly exploiting someone's labor.


So nice try 

(July 25, 2021 at 10:07 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:So what's your solution?

If your objective is to help them. Then simply let them stay rather than taking advantage of them.

So your solution is to let everyone stay for free?

(July 25, 2021 at 10:07 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:Btw, do you own or rent your home

I own my home. But even if I lived in a rented apartment that's still immoral as the very concept of a landlord is predatory, Oh and asking for rent is not the same as directly exploiting someone's labor.


So nice try 

How does one earn rent money? What if I said you can stay rent-free if you manage my property? Still think it's immoral?

(July 25, 2021 at 10:07 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:So what's your solution?

If your objective is to help them. Then simply let them stay rather than taking advantage of them.

Quote:Btw, do you own or rent your home

I own my home. But even if I lived in a rented apartment that's still immoral as the very concept of a landlord is predatory, Oh and asking for rent is not the same as directly exploiting someone's labor.


So nice try 

I don't often read your drivel, but I just decided to look at this one. I think that you should think about what you post before you post. Maybe that won't help much, though. Dayam.

(July 25, 2021 at 10:45 pm)Huggy Bear Wrote:

(July 25, 2021 at 10:07 pm)Helios Wrote: If your objective is to help them. Then simply let them stay rather than taking advantage of them.

So your solution is to let everyone stay for free?

(July 25, 2021 at 10:07 pm)Helios Wrote: I own my home. But even if I lived in a rented apartment that's still immoral as the very concept of a landlord is predatory, Oh and asking for rent is not the same as directly exploiting someone's labor.


So nice try 

How does one earn rent money? What if I said you can stay rent-free if you manage my property? Still think it's immoral?

1.If your objective is to help and not exploit them then yes.

2.Wage labor is immoral. I was simply pointing out direct labor is not the same as rent.

3. No asking them to manage your property is still immoral as it's still extracting labor from them.

---

(July 25, 2021 at 10:46 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(July 25, 2021 at 10:07 pm)Helios Wrote: If your objective is to help them. Then simply let them stay rather than taking advantage of them.


I own my home. But even if I lived in a rented apartment that's still immoral as the very concept of a landlord is predatory, Oh and asking for rent is not the same as directly exploiting someone's labor.


So nice try 

I don't often read your drivel, but I just decided to look at this one. I think that you should think about what you post before you post. Maybe that won't help much, though. Dayam.

How about you come up with an actual criticism or don't bother commenting. I have no time to waste on you