Not really, but why would that matter? Insisting that someone else does something shitty isn’t an argument that what you and your god support isn’t shitty, or that neither you nor your god support it.

You’re a fucking slaver, and I couldn’t kill my kid. I don’t know how I’ll live with the crushing moral ambiguity.

*sigh* Yet another Christian thinking a tube of lipstick will magically transform the pig.

For what it's worth, the indentured servant isn't free to make his or her own choices. That's kind of the point. No, you just support a shitty god who is okay with people doing shitty things to others.

Indeed. I wanted to circle back to one of your first remarks in thread, angr..about god treating all people as property to some extent.

It was this very belief that formed the basis of slave regulation in the ot. You couldn’t buy or sell a Jewish person - because they were already someone else’s servants- and he wasnt selling.

God owned them. It’s pretty clever as a behavioral modifier for people who support slavery and believe in a slaving god. The violation of the norm with respect to divine ownership could call into question the slave holders own claims to human property based on religious justifications.

They didn’t end up following their laws, but we don’t think there was ever any real system of enforcement. That’s the sort of scenario where you have to appreciate the construction of a lie for effect. It rolls the interests of the expansive state and its religious authority together. Creates a two class system and appeals to buy in through advantage.

(July 28, 2021 at 11:26 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Consider: “You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him" (Deuteronomy 23:15, ESV).

In contrast with the United States Constitution, Article IV: "No person held to service or labor in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.”

United States Constitution, thirteenth amendment (1865, aka 100y later):

Quote:Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation

Exodus 21

Quote:2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.
3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him.
4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone.
5 But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,'
6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
7 "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do

Leviticus 25:44-46

Quote:Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Bible (aka "gods word") 2000y later:

Quote:same

(July 28, 2021 at 3:02 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:

(July 28, 2021 at 11:26 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Consider: “You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him" (Deuteronomy 23:15, ESV).

In contrast with the United States Constitution, Article IV: "No person held to service or labor in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.”

United States Constitution, thirteenth amendment (1865, aka 100y later):

Quote:Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation

Exodus 21

Quote:2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.
3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him.
4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone.
5 But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,'
6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
7 "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do

Leviticus 25:44-46

Quote:Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Bible (aka "gods word") 2000y later:

Quote:same

Use the King James Version... Possession and property DO NOT mean the same thing, yet the version you used translates it as such.

They used the same term to refer to many types of labor exploitation. Not that you being wrong about yet another thing matters.

(July 28, 2021 at 3:16 pm)Huggy Bear Wrote: Use the King James Version...

Why?  because its one of he most recent and certainly not authentical (thou shalt) translations?
Because it does not say you can pass this human property/posession down to your children? You really think arguing over minutiae will distract from the main problem that the bible supports owning another human being as property, and you my friend are publicly defending it?

Do you want to be my slave under the rules of Leviticus? Do you want me to inherit you to my children? Do you want me to beat you so you dont die within a couple of days?
Do you want to be my (limited time) bond servant, so i can give you a wife and use your love to your wife (and potential offspring) to trick you into permanent slavery? How disgusting is that, and how depraved does one have to be wanting to defend this?

How immoral does the bible have to get until you stop defending its immoralities? Whats your personal limit? How far are you willing to go in your efforts to give up your humanity for this? Do you even have a limit?

For someone who argued in here long before i joined, you managed to stay a whole lot ignorant and dishonest. How comes?

Because he was under the impression it was a translation error…and apparently that the king James….of all things…was the good translation.

He was unaware the the culture in question used the same terms to describe different types of labor exploitation- and that we translated based on what we would call a similar arrangement at any given time.

Biblical slavery covers many sins. All of them illegal and unethical. Amusingly, it was king James himself that laid the infrastructure of what would later become integral to the transatlantic slave trade with the royal Africa company charter.

(July 28, 2021 at 3:19 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: They used the same term to refer to many types of labor exploitation.  Not that you being wrong about yet another thing matters.

So says the person who is repeatedly proven wrong...



I think you feel some type of way about holding all them L's that your new tactic is to mischaracterize someone's position and to try and debate upon the mischaracterization. Like I said, I've already debated this topic thoroughly, feel free to go back and take a gander at those, not really in the mood to repeat myself.

Aside from the linguistic semantics question of evad/ebed, endorsing/encouraging is not the same as permitting/regulating. Could someone please cite a verse where the Bible actually endorses, commands or encourages any particular person to own another person?