Was going to post this in the gay thread, but it's better suited here.

Quote:American Idol finalist David Archuleta said God told him to come out publicly after a conversation they had while he was “literally outside doing yard work”.

The singer, who is also a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, proudly came out as part of the LGBT+ community in an Instagram post in June. Archuleta explained in the post that he felt he is part of a “spectrum of bisexual” and potentially could be asexual.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/09/01/da...ican-idol/

I don't mean to call anyone's sexuality into question but being openly LDS complicates his declared sexuality. You can't be gay and LDS. Especially public as he's being about it, he might have to sit down with the Bishop, which is an invasive interview about how far he has explored the sexual side of himself. 

My thing is, I wonder if he is saying he's bisexual because it feels safer than being outright gay, like the possibility he might like women the way the church demands he do. And possibly asexual is an additional safe thing so he'd never have to prove it either way. Asexual might also be a defense against any accusations of acting on any sexual feelings he might have, since he's using shorthand for, "No, I don't have any."

It's fine if those are how he really feels. I just wonder how much the cult has influenced his coming out.

You can absolutely be gay and lds. Every gay person in the lds is a demonstration of that - and that's a reality that the cult is going to have to navigate if it intends to stay relevant, especially as heterosexuals come to be more aware and more empathetic about the nature of their lives in organizations like these.

Ultimately, the pronouncements of a religious institution can't actually be taken to be interchangeable with the perceptions of it's own constituents, and it's the perception of those constituents which wins out..every...single...time. That's why there's a graveyard of past problems for lds (and every other faith) that are no longer seen to be problems in present - just as there are (and will continue to be) problems in present not seen to be problems in past. Other christian cults have already tread this ground..so the new right answers™ are pretty much laying all over the place for lds to assume at it's leisure or necessity.

I'd wager that the reason this one thinks god told him to come out, is because he thinks it's important and meaningful to that work...and, sure, he's hedging - but that's to be expected.

He spoke with god? Are we sure that LDS isn't actually LSD?

(September 2, 2021 at 7:00 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You can absolutely be gay and lds. Every gay person in the lds is a demonstration of that - and that's a reality that the cult is going to have to navigate if it intends to stay relevant, especially as heterosexuals come to be more aware and more empathetic about the nature of their lives in organizations like these.

Ultimately, the pronouncements of a religious institution can't actually be taken to be interchangeable with the perceptions of it's own constituents, and it's the perception of those constituents which wins out..every...single...time. That's why there's a graveyard of past problems for lds (and every other faith) that are no longer seen to be problems in present - just as there are (and will continue to be) problems in present not seen to be problems in past. Other christian cults have already tread this ground..so the new right answers™ are pretty much laying all over the place for lds to assume at it's leisure or necessity.

I'd wager that the reason this one thinks god told him to come out, is because he thinks it's important and meaningful to that work...and, sure, he's hedging - but that's to be expected.

Agreed. Forgive me. I meant specifically that you cannot be openly gay/actively homosexual and be LDS without losing all the privileges that an active member has. If you're a young person, you can't go on a mission if you've experimented sexually with same gendered people; it's treated worse than heterosexual sexual sin. You can't talk openly and positively about your experience being gay in church classes; You'd get taken aside and talked to by the leaders for promoting a sinful lifestyle. You'd only be allowed to talk about it in the context of struggling to overcome your baser self. If you are gay, you won't be able to pass the sacrament, give blessings, teach classes, or attend the temple. You might even be discouraged from taking the sacrament. Which, all of these things are a measure of whether or not you will get into a higher glory in the next life. So, if you aren't worthy to pass and bless the sacrament or attend the temple, then you won't get to have your own planet and a harem of wives, which is the whole purpose of this life in LDS theology.

So....yes. You can be LDS and gay. But it is little more than sitting in the pews, asked to shut up, unless you are actively trying to repress yourself.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that this issue will likely be added to the graveyard of other changes they've made. Right now, it's a hot topic because one of the apostles recently used very disturbing language in putting the church's foot down about the LGBTQ+. And the membership is pissed. There has been a lot of vocal dissent by active members and believers. They've been getting more and more vocal about this issue over the years, mostly on account of the growing number of LGBT LDS youth who have taken their own lives over their struggles and isolation on this issue. The LDS might practice branwashing but not enough to turn off empathy. And there are a lot of families, parents, who have lost a son or daughter because of this doctrine.

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By the by, if the church ever did change this doctrine, it would be validating to me as an apostate. Because it's not "God" who's changing it but the old men at the top of the pyramid bowing to social pressure. And for how long they've waited and held off on changing it, the real motivator(read: money lost due to declining membership) will be obvious.

I once had a colleague tell me about how his mother was sick and he wanted people to pray for her because that worked every single time.

(September 2, 2021 at 8:25 am)Spongebob Wrote: I once had a colleague tell me about how his mother was sick and he wanted people to pray for her because that worked every single time.

Well, it will work every time ... until it doesn't.  And then it will "just be her time".

I love stupidity that is immune to scrutiny.

That's exactly the problem trying to use logic with theists. They are simply logic proof.

"You ever seen a monkey turn into a man?"

"No, but I've seen the opposite."

‘God loves me.’

‘Jesus died for my sins.’

‘Allah is merciful.’

Boru