(December 23, 2021 at 9:53 pm)Angrboda Wrote: You're a nutjob. We have about as much reason to believe Mohammed on Allah via Gabriel as we do Jesus via the Gospels. Just more of your bullshit double standards.

Not to mention that the Quran was also written by anonymous people decades after the supposed life of Muhammad.

The NT, quran, and hadith were all written by followers, attributing this or that to their respective shamans. If it's a good reason to reject one, it's equally good for any other.

(December 23, 2021 at 9:53 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(December 23, 2021 at 6:12 pm)WinterHold Wrote: No he didn't; the New Testament was written 100 years after Jesus Peace BUH's death, it is similar to the Islamic Hadith in nature: mere recording of the "stories said by Jesus's followers"; not attributed to him at all.

The new testament is Paul's word; not Jesus's word. Just like Bukhari and Muslim are the words of "Bukhari & Muslim"; not Mohammed.

You're a nutjob.  We have about as much reason to believe Mohammed on Allah via Gabriel as we do Jesus via the Gospels.  Just more of your bullshit double standards.

No, Mohammed was "ALIVE" when he ordered the Quran to be written; Jesus on the other hand was "DEAD" for 100 years when the New Testament was written.

(December 24, 2021 at 3:20 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(December 23, 2021 at 9:53 pm)Angrboda Wrote: You're a nutjob.  We have about as much reason to believe Mohammed on Allah via Gabriel as we do Jesus via the Gospels.  Just more of your bullshit double standards.

No, Mohammed was "ALIVE" when he ordered the Quran to be written; Jesus on the other hand was "DEAD" for 100 years when the New Testament was written.

Jesus wasn't dead, numbnutz. The point is we have no more reason to believe in uncorroborated stories from Mohammad than we do uncorroborated stories from anyone else. Your beliefs are based on blind faith of the stupidest kind.

(December 22, 2021 at 5:44 am)WinterHold Wrote: It will never cease to exist because disbelief in God was defeated once and for all. Science itself proved by evidence that the universe has a "starting point", and the event that created everything is called the "Big Bang".

Here's the picture describing our universe's creation:



Who caused the "Big Bang"? or is it legal to ask such a question scientifically? Meanings themselves have no meaning before that point.
But how is the "Big Bang" intelligent enough to make us humans come to being? doesn't that mean the the religious idea of "fate/meant to be" is not so outlandish and weird?

Here, the idea of "Intelligent design" pops up: this explosion "Big Bang" was an intelligent explosion with precise meant to be calculations that resulted in human creation!

Religion will never cease to exist, because science did prove that the Big Bang theory is real enough.

Getting that behind us, it comes to choosing "which God to believe was behind this Big Bang".
Personally, I believe it is Allah who revealed the Quran.

Quote:It will never cease to exist because disbelief in God was defeated once and for all. Science itself proved by evidence that the universe has a "starting point", and the event that created everything is called the "Big Bang".

1. Having a starting point for the universe just tells us that the universe is changing form. It doesn’t mean that there was nothing and the jewish god comes along and speaks magical words and things start to exist.

2. I am not saying that the universe is a natural event. It could be an artificial event and perhaps it is a major project involving some aliens performing an experiment. It could be that you do not wish that to be true. It could be that you are comfortable with the religion of your ancestors.
It could be that those aliens are in another universe.

3. When it comes to science, science is a natural philosophy. In other words, we don’t find it useful to say “aliens did this”, “aliens are the cause”.
Aliens and gods are sort of the same thing. They are technologically highly advanced.

4. For example, we don’t find it useful to claim that the pyramids of Egypt were built by aliens. Some people, such as Erick Von Danicken believe in such things because they have a hard time imagining that primitive man could come up with the techniques to build those Pyramids.
He makes the same claim when it comes to Mayan artifiacts, the things the Nazca people made (geoglyphs), Stonehenge and the many other megaliths found in Europe and Asia Minor.

In science, we use Occam’s razor. This means that we go with the most mundane, ordinary explanations rather than the ones involving gods, aliens.

5. The Big Bang does not match up with the jewish creation myths. I don’t know how much the Muslims modified it but it sounds like they believe that the jewish god started with Adam and Eve and there is the tree of knowledge of good and evil they claim the snake is satan. So, Muslims copy a little of christian believes.
In the jewish version, a careful reading of their creation myth shows that it is a snake created by the jewish god and it says it is the most intelligent animal.

6. The universe has taken a long time to evolve (evolve just means change) and to reach its present point. Nope, there were no humans on day 1 or 6 or 7 or 8 or whatever your holy book says.

7. Most of the universe is hostile to human life. Most of the Earth is hostile to human life. This is like having a olympic sized pool full of white paint and you drop a few molecules of black paint and you claim the pool has black paint now.
In other words, the universe was not built for humans. Some areas of the Earth had the right conditions. The right mutations occurred (dumb luck) and this led to humans.
In other words, the Earth won a lottery.
It’s just a numbers game.

8. Human level intelligence is not necessary. Most lifeforms are brainless: plants, bacteria, yeast, amoeba.
The ones with brains, are much dumber than humans but they do possess some of the abilities/emotions that we do. The closest ones are the other apes. We are apes as well.
And it is said that ~95% of species has gone exist.
From the fossil evidence, it looks like other humanoids existed, neanderthals and another one. Looks like we are the only survivors. However, even our genome shows that there has been a period of contraction.

Quote:Here, the idea of "Intelligent design" pops up: this explosion "Big Bang" was an intelligent explosion with precise meant to be calculations that resulted in human creation!

I would say it is a numbers game. A lottery.
I have noticed that nature tends to make many.
For example, there isn’t just one electron. There is something like 10^85 in the universe.
There isn’t just one atom. There is about 10^80.
Same with planets.
Same with stars.
Same with galaxies.
So, why not zillions of universes?

Our planet might not be unique. There is probably some form of life on other planets. The only way to know is exploration.
You aren’t going to find anything about the universe in your Qoran. It doesn’t contains anything of scientific value. All it contains is some things known at the time of Mohamed.

So, have you found anything that matches with modern science in the Qoran?

(December 24, 2021 at 3:20 pm)WinterHold Wrote: No, Mohammed was "ALIVE" when he ordered the Quran to be written; Jesus on the other hand was "DEAD" for 100 years when the New Testament was written.

Abu Bakr ordered the magic book be written, not big mo.  Big mo was dead before the thing ever existed.  You're as bad as a christian, completely ignorant of your own faith.

Get thee to a priest, or whatever passes for one.

(December 23, 2021 at 10:15 am)WinterHold Wrote: Big mistake: you don't know who might care & who might not, in other words this verse:

Quote:Sura 6, The Quran:
https://quran.com/6:70?store=false&translations=

And leave those who take their religion as amusement and diversion and whom the worldly life has deluded. But remind with it [i.e., the Qur’ān], lest a soul be given up to destruction for what it earned; it will have other than Allah no protector and no intercessor. And if it should offer every compensation, it would not be taken from it [i.e., that soul]. Those are the ones who are given to destruction for what they have earned. For them will be a drink of scalding water and a painful punishment because they used to disbelieve.

— Saheeh International

Why do you want to do such things to people? You want to destroy them, you want to throw boiling water on them just because they don’t believe the same things that you do?

Or is it that someone else would be doing that nasty job instead of you? Will you be in the next room? Will you not hear their pain or will you be a member of the audience in a theater?

Is the punisher going to be the jewish god? Do you worship him as a god? Are you 100% on his side, no matter what he does to whom he does?

(December 23, 2021 at 12:23 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(December 23, 2021 at 10:40 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Too bad you don't worship a god able to speak for itself.

He did speak to humanity in the Quran, but many humans rejected what he said.

Mohamed supposedly heard it from Gabriel who supposedly heard it from Allah. Hearsay of hearsay and definitely not an example of Allah speaking for himself.

(December 28, 2021 at 1:03 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(December 23, 2021 at 12:23 pm)WinterHold Wrote: He did speak to humanity in the Quran, but many humans rejected what he said.

Mohamed supposedly heard it from Gabriel who supposedly heard it from Allah. Hearsay of hearsay and definitely not an example of Allah speaking for himself.

But he had a hat and some special hearing stones.

(December 28, 2021 at 1:03 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(December 23, 2021 at 12:23 pm)WinterHold Wrote: He did speak to humanity in the Quran, but many humans rejected what he said.

Mohamed supposedly heard it from Gabriel who supposedly heard it from Allah. Hearsay of hearsay and definitely not an example of Allah speaking for himself.