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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 15, 2022 at 3:07 pm
(March 15, 2022 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (March 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Assuming is not knowing. You can assume that is what God did but you don't know that's what he did as he may have had other ideas.
You can play this game all day long about God having some hidden agendas, instead of looking at what God purportedly did and said. There is a principle called credulity, we assume things that appear to be so as indeed so, otherwise, we simply depart from reality.
(March 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm)Angrboda Wrote: In fact, we know he left certain backdoors in our reasoning by which it could be corrupted so as to allow the hardening of hearts.
the 'heardening of hearts' verses you're alluding to only concern people who knowingly reject the islamic message, not people who made honest mistakes in reasoning, but I think you already know that.
(March 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm)Angrboda Wrote: And Satan rules on earth,
Show us the verse in the Qur'an that asserts that, I'll wait.
In fact the Qur'an asserts the exact contrary:
"Indeed, Satan’s schemes are ever weak." (4:76)
“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”
Chapter 18 Thor Oakshield -Hobbit-
Checkmate again.
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Nay_Sayer: 34,583,014
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming" -The Prophet Boiardi-
Conservative trigger warning.
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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 15, 2022 at 3:44 pm
(March 15, 2022 at 3:07 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: (March 15, 2022 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: You can play this game all day long about God having some hidden agendas, instead of looking at what God purportedly did and said. There is a principle called credulity, we assume things that appear to be so as indeed so, otherwise, we simply depart from reality.
the 'heardening of hearts' verses you're alluding to only concern people who knowingly reject the islamic message, not people who made honest mistakes in reasoning, but I think you already know that.
Show us the verse in the Qur'an that asserts that, I'll wait.
In fact the Qur'an asserts the exact contrary:
"Indeed, Satan’s schemes are ever weak." (4:76)
“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”
Chapter 18 Thor Oakshield -Hobbit-
Checkmate again.
Scoreboard
Klorphyll: 0
Nay_Sayer: 34,583,014 A quote from a vastly superior book
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 15, 2022 at 3:58 pm
(March 15, 2022 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (March 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Assuming is not knowing. You can assume that is what God did but you don't know that's what he did as he may have had other ideas.
You can play this game all day long about God having some hidden agendas, instead of looking at what God purportedly did and said. There is a principle called credulity, we assume things that appear to be so as indeed so, otherwise, we simply depart from reality.
God didn't say anything that is in the Koran. As to what God did, well you're still trying to futilely prove authorship along several dimensions. Regardless, assuming isn't knowing, and revelation is every bit as useless without first establishing the god so described exists -- not some similar god but that specific one. Can you do that? No.
(March 15, 2022 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (March 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm)Angrboda Wrote: In fact, we know he left certain backdoors in our reasoning by which it could be corrupted so as to allow the hardening of hearts.
the 'heardening of hearts' verses you're alluding to only concern people who knowingly reject the islamic message, not people who made honest mistakes in reasoning, but I think you already know that.
Not the point, oh clueless one. God clearly provided the possibility that your reason may be corrupted, now you need to prove your reasoning isn't corrupted. How are you going to do that except through reasoning, which may be corrupted?
(March 15, 2022 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (March 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm)Angrboda Wrote: And Satan rules on earth,
Show us the verse in the Qur'an that asserts that, I'll wait.
In fact the Qur'an asserts the exact contrary:
"Indeed, Satan’s schemes are ever weak." (4:76)
That's nice, we have one revelation from God that says that Satan rules on earth. You have a revelation from God that says otherwise. Now all you have to do is prove which one is correct. I'll wait.
Oh, and still waiting for evidence of fine tuning.
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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 15, 2022 at 4:04 pm
(This post was last modified: March 15, 2022 at 4:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 15, 2022 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (March 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Assuming is not knowing. You can assume that is what God did but you don't know that's what he did as he may have had other ideas.
You can play this game all day long about God having some hidden agendas, instead of looking at what God purportedly did and said. There is a principle called credulity, we assume things that appear to be so as indeed so, otherwise, we simply depart from reality.
(March 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm)Angrboda Wrote: In fact, we know he left certain backdoors in our reasoning by which it could be corrupted so as to allow the hardening of hearts.
the 'heardening of hearts' verses you're alluding to only concern people who knowingly reject the islamic message, not people who made honest mistakes in reasoning, but I think you already know that.
I can't speak for everyone..but I knowingly reject the islamic message precisely because I'm convinced that the islamic message is exactly what you and your islamist buddies keep telling me it is.
That, Kloro, is exactly what I think is dogshit, exactly why I don't feel like joining your club. It's not just that you're full of shit, but also that it would be dogshit even it were true. Assuming god did and said every little thing you believe - I'll pass.
Comprende?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 15, 2022 at 5:28 pm
(March 15, 2022 at 3:58 pm)Angrboda Wrote: (March 15, 2022 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: You can play this game all day long about God having some hidden agendas, instead of looking at what God purportedly did and said. There is a principle called credulity, we assume things that appear to be so as indeed so, otherwise, we simply depart from reality.
God didn't say anything that is in the Koran. As to what God did, well you're still trying to futilely prove authorship along several dimensions. Regardless, assuming isn't knowing, and revelation is every bit as useless without first establishing the god so described exists -- not some similar god but that specific one. Can you do that? No.
(March 15, 2022 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: the 'heardening of hearts' verses you're alluding to only concern people who knowingly reject the islamic message, not people who made honest mistakes in reasoning, but I think you already know that.
Not the point, oh clueless one. God clearly provided the possibility that your reason may be corrupted, now you need to prove your reasoning isn't corrupted. How are you going to do that except through reasoning, which may be corrupted?
(March 15, 2022 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Show us the verse in the Qur'an that asserts that, I'll wait.
In fact the Qur'an asserts the exact contrary:
"Indeed, Satan’s schemes are ever weak." (4:76)
That's nice, we have one revelation from God that says that Satan rules on earth. You have a revelation from God that says otherwise. Now all you have to do is prove which one is correct. I'll wait.
Oh, and still waiting for evidence of fine tuning. He might assert revelation as many presups do. But it still requires a possibly corrupted mind to receive the message and interpret it.
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 16, 2022 at 11:55 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2022 at 12:03 pm by LadyForCamus.)
@ Klorophyll How is me pointing out the fact that you’re using the same logic you’re condemning atheists for using an ad hominem attack? I’ll wait.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 16, 2022 at 1:41 pm
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2022 at 1:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
He doesn't know what the term means. Oh well, it's not like it would be helpful if he did - he's a cultist. It's been a pet project of mine for some time to explain to our evangelists that proving the shit they believe in is really real™ is insufficient. There's a bowling club here in town. They're real. I don't need and they don't need to argue themselves into existence. I'm still not a member, just because that club is real in all of the ways that his silly god is not. Bowling just isn't my jam.
IDK, but I don't think the consequential difference between a muslim and a western atheist is that one doesn't believe in a god and one does. Or even that one person doesn't really know how to do logic and another does. It's a fundamental difference not related to god belief whatsoever.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 16, 2022 at 10:35 pm
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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 16, 2022 at 10:39 pm
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
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RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 16, 2022 at 10:51 pm
(March 15, 2022 at 2:27 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Because, assuming theism,....
That's the problem with theism. Too much assuming based on fallible faith.
"What a little moonlight can do." ~ Billie Holiday
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