(April 2, 2022 at 9:33 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(April 2, 2022 at 2:36 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (bold mine)

Yeah, that bit's really not your call.

Boru

So you are saying that I am only culpable by virtue of my skin colour and not because of any action on my part or my ancestor's part?

Gee... Isn' t that just racist as hell?

Not saying that at all. I’m saying that reparations (if any) would be paid out of general revenue and you don’t get to decide who does and doesn’t receive a slice of the taxes you pay.

Boru

There's a better way, ironically, it was our very first idea. Land. The federal goverment owns 28% of the land in this country, state governments own additional millions of acres each. Either directly transferring ownership or management - or selling/leasing some of it to fund the program. Maybe even attach a priority bidding mandate for low income americans.

(April 2, 2022 at 10:52 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There's a better way, ironically, it was our very first idea.  Land.  The federal goverment owns 28% of the land in this country, state governments own additional millions of acres each.  Either directly transferring ownership or management - or selling/leasing some of it to fund the program.  Maybe even attach a priority bidding mandate for low income americans.

Kinda an updated version of ‘forty acres and a mule’. Not the worst idea.

Boru

(April 2, 2022 at 10:47 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(April 2, 2022 at 9:33 am)onlinebiker Wrote: So you are saying that I am only culpable by virtue of my skin colour and not because of any action on my part or my ancestor's part?

Gee... Isn' t that just racist as hell?

Not saying that at all. I’m saying that reparations (if any) would be paid out of general revenue and you don’t get to decide who does and doesn’t receive a slice of the taxes you pay.

Boru

And I am not arguing the logistics of taxation and spending. I am talking about opposing an idea that is racist to it's core.

Reparations for slavery are the Real Racism™. The poor downtrodden white man has to put up with so much racism he's just going to snap and start shooting people. You know..more.

(April 2, 2022 at 12:05 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(April 2, 2022 at 10:47 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Not saying that at all. I’m saying that reparations (if any) would be paid out of general revenue and you don’t get to decide who does and doesn’t receive a slice of the taxes you pay.

Boru

And I am not arguing the logistics of taxation and spending. I am talking about opposing an idea that is racist to it's core.

And I was talking specifically about your statement ‘So you ain’t getting a motherfucking nickel out of me.’ If it’s paid for out of general taxation, they ARE getting a motherfucking nickel out of you, whether you like it or not.

But Nudger brings up an interesting point. Let’s say the sale of federal lands was adopted as a means to fund reparations. Would you purchase 1000 acres of land for $100 if you knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the money you paid was to be used to pay reparations to the descendants of enslaved Americans?

Boru

The beauty of it, is that people would buy federal and state land whether it went to reparations or not, and even if they knew it did and hated that - because it's the Real Racism.

It's just a good deal. To be blunt, I can't interpret distributing pocket money gained through taxation as anything other than a very willful and cynical attempt to kick an interest accruing can down the road. I get the whole "maybe this is all we can do, so it would be better to get something than nothing" - thing - but I don't agree with it. If we think reparations are required, lets do that. It's senseless to advocate for or work towards reparations if what we're really trying to do is send out a one time lump sump welfare payment. That's going down the money pit toot sweet, ending up where it always ends up. Rights on timber, water access, farmland, real estate - this is the road to economic enfranchisement, and we know that.... because it's exactly how we did it, exactly what was taken from and prohibited to the disenfranchised other.

(April 2, 2022 at 12:33 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(April 2, 2022 at 12:05 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: And I am not arguing the logistics of taxation and spending. I am talking about opposing an idea that is racist to it's core.

And I was talking specifically about your statement ‘So you ain’t getting a motherfucking nickel out of me.’ If it’s paid for out of general taxation, they ARE getting a motherfucking nickel out of you, whether you like it or not.

But Nudger brings up an interesting point. Let’s say the sale of federal lands was adopted as a means to fund reparations. Would you purchase 1000 acres of land for $100 if you knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the money you paid was to be used to pay reparations to the descendants of enslaved Americans?

Boru

Awful selective of your choice of victims..


I' m sure there' s some red skinned chaps that feel you'd be selling off THEIR land......


Have fun.

Quote:Awful selective of your choice of victims..


I' m sure there' s some red skinned chaps that feel you'd be selling off THEIR land......


Have fun.


Dead Horse

That makes zero sense 

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Quote:And I am not arguing the logistics of taxation and spending. I am talking about opposing an idea that is racist to it's core.

it isn't thou

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Quote:So you are saying that I am only culpable by virtue of my skin colour and not because of any action on my part or my ancestor's part?

Gee... Isn' t that just racist as hell?

Then you have very weird definition of racist

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Wheater you are pro or anti reparations these objections are silly. The economic harm IS the best objection to reparations.  

For the record, it’s not like you can pick and choose where the money you spend goes. If that were the case, I’d have done everything legally within my power to defund our bloated military and it’s perpetual wars. It all goes into a general pool of tax revenue, and it’s one that every citizen above a certain income level has to put in. So, if reparation efforts end up being paid for by taxes, it’s coming from taxpayers of all ethnicities, whether they’re white descendants of slaveholders, white people who weren’t descended from slaveholders, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, and even black people. Once the money’s in the revenue pool, it doesn’t matter who each individual dollar came from; it belongs to the IRS now and they will spend it however they see fit. That’s how taxation works.

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(April 2, 2022 at 2:10 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(April 2, 2022 at 12:33 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And I was talking specifically about your statement ‘So you ain’t getting a motherfucking nickel out of me.’ If it’s paid for out of general taxation, they ARE getting a motherfucking nickel out of you, whether you like it or not.

But Nudger brings up an interesting point. Let’s say the sale of federal lands was adopted as a means to fund reparations. Would you purchase 1000 acres of land for $100 if you knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the money you paid was to be used to pay reparations to the descendants of enslaved Americans?

Boru

Awful selective of your choice of victims..


I' m sure there' s some red skinned chaps that feel you'd be selling off THEIR land......


Have fun.

I don’t think Khem was talking about selling off the reservations, dude. Yes, I know that the many Native American tribes used to lay claim to most every square foot of the US (and I found out recently from native-land.ca that where I live has been claimed by Six different tribes as having once been theirs) but I think that by this point they’ve come to terms with the fact that they’re never getting the bulk of it back. It’s worth noting that even the Land Back movement, for all its talk of getting back everything stolen from the indigenous people, tends in practice to concentrate more on getting smaller individual parcels of land than just trying to get everything.