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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 6, 2022 at 7:45 pm
(May 6, 2022 at 4:28 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (May 6, 2022 at 10:37 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: Really? Which part is wrong for what reason? That is reason Other than the fact your sense of why it is not a waste of time for you to keep on living is dependent on believing this bullshit?
Something that satisfied all desires would still be subject to criticism.
Because not all desires should be satisfied. Some people desire to torture animals, and they will criticize whatever stops them.
Even a God which satisfied all GOOD desires would get lots of criticism, because people often don't know what's good for them.
No, something that satisfy all desires would simultaneous satisfy the desires of people who wants to torture animals, and those who would not have animals tortured.
They would satisfy all desires, include those who desires some desire to not be satisfied.
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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 6, 2022 at 8:11 pm
(May 6, 2022 at 7:45 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: (May 6, 2022 at 4:28 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Something that satisfied all desires would still be subject to criticism.
Because not all desires should be satisfied. Some people desire to torture animals, and they will criticize whatever stops them.
Even a God which satisfied all GOOD desires would get lots of criticism, because people often don't know what's good for them.
No, something that satisfy all desires would simultaneous satisfy the desires of people who wants to torture animals, and those who would not have animals tortured.
They would satisfy all desires, include those who desires some desire to not be satisfied.
You said earlier:
Quote:Nothing is above criticism unless it satisfies all possible desires that can exist.
This was in reference to Ahriman's question about whether God could be good if it is also possible to criticize him.
I don't understand why you think that God would want to satisfy all desires, or why this would put God above criticism. It is possible to criticize the satisfaction of some desires. It would certainly be possible to criticize the satisfaction of ALL desires, since some desires are bad.
This seems like a strange tangent, since I don't know of any theology which claims that God's role is to satisfy everyone.
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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 7, 2022 at 9:23 pm
(May 4, 2022 at 1:48 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I mean, I know I've said some pretty harsh things about God (in real life), but perhaps God is above all forms of criticism? And acts like the one truly objectively good thing in a person's life, despite what that person might think or say about God?
It's relatively trivial to both define God as good and, circularly, have God define what is good. To actually demonstrate that this is true requires that we walk over an awful lot of corpses that suggest otherwise.
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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 7, 2022 at 10:39 pm
(This post was last modified: May 7, 2022 at 10:39 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Steps on the toes of two entirely different questions, really.
Could a god be good? Sure, why not. We can be good, gods could be good. We can be bad, gods could be bad too.
Can the good be god? Well, entirely up to us. We could choose to organize our societies around whatever is good - but not so long as we're worshipping gods, instead.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 29, 2022 at 12:22 am
(This post was last modified: May 29, 2022 at 12:23 am by chiknsld.)
(May 4, 2022 at 1:48 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I mean, I know I've said some pretty harsh things about God (in real life), but perhaps God is above all forms of criticism? And acts like the one truly objectively good thing in a person's life, despite what that person might think or say about God?
I think it's certainly possible. I was telling someone on the "Ask an atheist reddit" last night that if God does exist, that it does not matter what he says to disprove God (that God would still exist nevertheless). But he ended up getting agitated by that and said the conversation was over. It's strange though because such a simple insight was not meant to troll him or trigger him. Anyways, that's neither here nor there.
I think though, that there are some other possibilities:
God could be punishing us by making us live in a life of suffering (why I don't know).
God could have created the world but left us and now we are all alone.
God could have nothing to do with the creation of this world and some other entity created the world whom has no interest in our affairs.
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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 29, 2022 at 4:43 am
(May 29, 2022 at 12:22 am)chiknsld Wrote: (May 4, 2022 at 1:48 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I mean, I know I've said some pretty harsh things about God (in real life), but perhaps God is above all forms of criticism? And acts like the one truly objectively good thing in a person's life, despite what that person might think or say about God?
I think it's certainly possible. I was telling someone on the "Ask an atheist reddit" last night that if God does exist, that it does not matter what he says to disprove God (that God would still exist nevertheless). But he ended up getting agitated by that and said the conversation was over. It's strange though because such a simple insight was not meant to troll him or trigger him. Anyways, that's neither here nor there.
I think though, that there are some other possibilities:
God could be punishing us by making us live in a life of suffering (why I don't know).
God could have created the world but left us and now we are all alone.
God could have nothing to do with the creation of this world and some other entity created the world whom has no interest in our affairs.
Possibility #4: The world was not created and the universe is pitilessly indifferent to the suffering of humanity.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 29, 2022 at 6:04 am
(May 29, 2022 at 4:43 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (May 29, 2022 at 12:22 am)chiknsld Wrote: I think it's certainly possible. I was telling someone on the "Ask an atheist reddit" last night that if God does exist, that it does not matter what he says to disprove God (that God would still exist nevertheless). But he ended up getting agitated by that and said the conversation was over. It's strange though because such a simple insight was not meant to troll him or trigger him. Anyways, that's neither here nor there.
I think though, that there are some other possibilities:
God could be punishing us by making us live in a life of suffering (why I don't know).
God could have created the world but left us and now we are all alone.
God could have nothing to do with the creation of this world and some other entity created the world whom has no interest in our affairs.
Possibility #4: The world was not created and the universe is pitilessly indifferent to the suffering of humanity.
Boru Nah......in any case, the world/universe was definitely created.
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 29, 2022 at 6:11 am
(May 29, 2022 at 6:04 am)Ahriman Wrote: (May 29, 2022 at 4:43 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Possibility #4: The world was not created and the universe is pitilessly indifferent to the suffering of humanity.
Boru Nah......in any case, the world/universe was definitely created.
Prove it.
Boru
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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 29, 2022 at 6:19 am
(May 29, 2022 at 6:11 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (May 29, 2022 at 6:04 am)Ahriman Wrote: Nah......in any case, the world/universe was definitely created.
Prove it.
Boru Prove it wasn't created. The vast complexity of everything in the universe, including stars, planets, myriad unique life forms, etc. suggests some kind of thoughtful creation. You really think this all happened for no reason at all?
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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RE: Can God be objectively good despite criticism against Him/Her/It?
May 29, 2022 at 6:37 am
(May 29, 2022 at 6:19 am)Ahriman Wrote: (May 29, 2022 at 6:11 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Prove it.
Boru Prove it wasn't created. The vast complexity of everything in the universe, including stars, planets, myriad unique life forms, etc. suggests some kind of thoughtful creation. You really think this all happened for no reason at all?
I don’t have to prove it wasn’t created, because I didn’t assert that it was - I suggested it as a possibility. You, on the other hand, made a positive claim. The onus is on you to establish that claim via something more substantive than a gut feeling.
Yes, I think that all this happened for no reason at all, and I will continue to accept that as a best hypothesis until you and your ilk come up with something more convincing than ‘goddidit’.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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