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Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II
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The problem with religious people is this: they assume people will act in immoral ways if not subjected to their particular set of laws because they themselves believe they would act in exactly that manner.
Also that they have ridiculous notions of what constitutes as moral, but we've discussed that elsewhere. I would posit that this person is afraid that if this future they envisage came about, were it not for the threat of the 'raging alcoholic' Hebrew god, they would participate wholeheartedly. ![[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn569%2Fthesummerqueen%2FUntitled2_zpswaosccbr.png)  (November 29, 2011 at 12:26 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: The problem with religious people is this: they assume people will act in immoral ways if not subjected to their particular set of laws because they themselves believe they would act in exactly that manner. Nah, I don't assume that. I know that an atheist can have good morals in many greater degrees than a believer of religion and that the vice versa is also true.
You're also not overly obsessed with your religiosity, Rayaan.
That's true. But, I also know a lot of Muslims who are overly obsessed with their religion and they are still good people.
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II
November 29, 2011 at 1:18 pm
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2011 at 1:20 pm by thesummerqueen.)
I'm not saying they're not - please don't get that impression. I'm saying that those who suggest atheists, or even those of different religions, are immoral only because they don't follow the same rule book, are afraid they wouldn't be able to control their own impulses if put under different circumstances without the threat of one god or another. I'd love for people to understand that it is quite within you to be a good, kind, generous and helpful person without all the trappings of religion.
Or with different religious trappings. I know a lot of people whose religions are important to them, and I do adore them - Christian or otherwise - though I do wish they'd stress a little less and realize that their goodness comes from the person they are and their natural empathy and compassion, not because Jesus or Allah or Jehovah put it in their head to be so.  (November 29, 2011 at 12:26 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: The problem with religious people is this: they assume people will act in immoral ways if not subjected to their particular set of laws because they themselves believe they would act in exactly that manner. The whole - Since you don't hold the same religious beliefs nor follow religious rules, you're wrong and immoral by default....argument. Entirely fallacious. They fail to recognise or accept that by not possessing such beliefs or following such rules that a person can still be right and very moral. That's where the hatred resides as well as delusion. That's one of his biggest problems. The argument isn't too distant from the argument of god, that since we don't know where all this came from (the universe) god must of done it (god some how being the default answer). Fallacious arguments. That's why I can't see how I could ever argue successfully as a theist in defence of such beliefs. There's too many holes.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity. Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist. You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them. RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II
November 29, 2011 at 1:56 pm
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2011 at 2:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 29, 2011 at 1:11 pm)Rayaan Wrote: That's true. But, I also know a lot of Muslims who are overly obsessed with their religion and they are still good people. Because they're still people, regardless of their religion. That has to be said. The old canard about what it takes to make a good man do evil. The crusaders didn't shout "I will it" and jihadis don't scream "I hu akbar".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II
November 29, 2011 at 7:54 pm
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2011 at 7:58 pm by Norfolk And Chance.)
(November 29, 2011 at 10:20 am)TheReal Wrote: Instead of anti-semitism and hatred, how about making a logical argument? He just did. (November 29, 2011 at 1:05 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: You're also not overly obsessed with your religiosity, Rayaan. Just as well, because islam is as laughable as christianity.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
My wife shared this with me tonight and I said it reminded me of TheReal's whining about disrespect for his religion:
![[Image: tumblr_lvfsrrvXBQ1r6wtaho1_500.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=30.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lvfsrrvXBQ1r6wtaho1_500.jpg)
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too." ... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept "(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question" ... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist |
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