(July 22, 2022 at 10:01 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(July 22, 2022 at 2:37 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Your dogmatic faith in background checks rivals the Jebus freak' s faith that they will party with their invisible friend for eternity.

A background check only shows PAST behavior. 
It will show you who has been a bad person - and we assume from that they will be bad in the future. Right?

So checking EVERYBODY - (and the vast majority will show up as good to buy guns. Right?) wastes the majority of the law enforcement resource.

It would be far better to simply make it possible for the average person to be able to access a list of potentially bad people.

A background check may only show past behavior, but past behavior is often a good indicator of future behavior. Fun fact: a study of mass shootings from 2014 to 2019 found that 2/3 of mass shootings are linked to domestic violence. Bar people with a history of domestic violence from gun ownership, we’ll likely see less gun violence. And add more things to the stuff to check, things like promotion of political extremism on social media profiles or checking the applicant’s medical records, and I suspect things will go further down.

So on this we agree.

And on that generally accessible list of potentially bad people, who do you think should be expected to maintain it and what do you expect the people who access it to do about it?


One of the big problems is the non- standardization of data and policing agencies not sharing data.

The local cops don' t always share info with the state police, who don' t share with the FBI, who doesn'r share with BATF, or EPIC or other such agencies...

We as a country have an adversion to BBS - big brother syndrome. We don' t like being watched for the most part. ( if watching or being watched is your thing - have at it.)

We have and should expect some right to privacy.

But - that right CAN be taken away if a court decides to do so.

If you run afoul the law - we should be able through the courts to make a note of it in a centralized data base. If you run afoul the law and we decide you should not be allowed to own firearms - that too should be in the same data base.

Your personal ID should have that last bit shown with a nice large NO GUNS logo.

No more background checks needed

It is much more effective and efficient than what we are doing now.

.

So, what's to stop someone who's run afoul of the law and deemed no longer worthy of having a gun from getting a fake ID that doesn't mention the fact? Because it looks like, under your plan, you've just made it harder to independently verify whether or not they're telling the truth. And if there is a way to do so, guess what? That's just a background check (even if it's just a rudimentary one.)

(July 23, 2022 at 4:52 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 23, 2022 at 4:35 am)GUBU Wrote: Actually not all guns are illegal in the UK, just certain categories of them.  The difference though between theUS and UK and other sane countries is that in sane countries to own a gun you need to go through a process to show that you are a suitable person to responsibly own a gun, know the necessary safety precautions, taken the necessary safety precautions for storage and safekeeping and have a valid reason to own a gun.

A sane country treats gun ownership like car driving, you have to prove that you can safely do it before being given the necessary permissions and if you engage in behaviours contrary to proper safe usage you lose the privilege of use.

I can't understan why this is so hard to grasp among US gun nuts.

(Bold mine)

‘I’m not a gun nut! I’m a firearms enthusiast!’ - Gun nuts everywhere.

NZ manages to combine reasonably strict gun regulations with a fairly high level of gun ownership and an enviably low level of gun violence.

Boru

So does Ireland. We have c. 250,000 firearms in circulation in the country (it is not certain how many people own guns, we're bad at maintaining proper statistical records in AGS) and yet outside of active war settings we've had no mass murders and we've never had a school shooting.

(July 23, 2022 at 10:50 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: So, what's to stop someone who's run afoul of the law and deemed no longer worthy of having a gun from getting a fake ID that doesn't mention the fact? Because it looks like, under your plan, you've just made it harder to independently verify whether or not they're telling the truth. And if there is a way to do so, guess what? That's just a background check (even if it's just a rudimentary one.)

 Whataboutism......

People can get by background checks now by stealing a legit buyer' s drivers license......

There will always be criminals who figure ways of gaming the system....

How about if you .get in trouble and firearms are involved - we hack off both trigger fingers?


That' d make them easy to spot...

Please learn what whataboutism is and its valid criticism of your plan 

(July 23, 2022 at 2:41 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(July 23, 2022 at 10:50 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: So, what's to stop someone who's run afoul of the law and deemed no longer worthy of having a gun from getting a fake ID that doesn't mention the fact? Because it looks like, under your plan, you've just made it harder to independently verify whether or not they're telling the truth. And if there is a way to do so, guess what? That's just a background check (even if it's just a rudimentary one.)

 Whataboutism......

People can get by background checks now by stealing a legit buyer' s drivers license......

There will always be criminals who figure ways of gaming the system....

How about if you .get in trouble and firearms are involved - we hack off both trigger fingers?


That' d make them easy to spot...

I get the joke, but hacking off trigger fingers wouldn’t work - I know a competition shooter who only has a thumb and ring finger on his trigger hand. Got a case full of trophies, he has.

Boru

Helen - have you no life other than eagerly standing by waiting for me to post???


What a dreadfully dreary life you must lead...

(July 23, 2022 at 2:50 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 23, 2022 at 2:41 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:  Whataboutism......

People can get by background checks now by stealing a legit buyer' s drivers license......

There will always be criminals who figure ways of gaming the system....

How about if you .get in trouble and firearms are involved - we hack off both trigger fingers?


That' d make them easy to spot...

I get the joke, but hacking off trigger fingers wouldn’t work - I know a competition shooter who only has a thumb and ring finger on his trigger hand. Got a case full of trophies, he has.

Boru

It would make it easy.to spot the bad pennies....

Quote:Helen - have you no life other than eagerly standing by waiting for me to post???

Debbie do you have any life other than suffering the sad delusion I wait for you to post something? (considering I have ignored more of your posts than I have responded to on this forum don't believe me look it up)

Quote:What a dreadfully dreary life you must lead...

What awful life you must lead suffer from the delusion I wait for you to post. When it's factually false no less.

Oh and nice job "ignoring me " by the way 

(July 23, 2022 at 2:52 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(July 23, 2022 at 2:50 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I get the joke, but hacking off trigger fingers wouldn’t work - I know a competition shooter who only has a thumb and ring finger on his trigger hand. Got a case full of trophies, he has.

Boru

It would make it easy.to spot the bad pennies....

And would lead to the harassment of the innocent eight-fingered.

Boru