(March 4, 2023 at 6:31 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: So Technically Russia has helped Europeans by showing them that reliance on fossil fuels is dangerous even if there was no climate emergency. But as I said this will not be the only change that will happen in the coming years. I believe that agriculture will start shifting to more eco-friendly means of production too. If we can push our governments in that direction, I think the result will be a better economy in general (but that’s my point of view).

Yes, germany also used russian natgas for energy - but here they've largely been able to find other sources.  The feedstock issue is it's own thing.  It's not fuel.

In addition to using russian gas for power, their model depended on russian gas for industrial feedstock.  Changing ag, or making eco friendly products - all of this requires feedstock even assuming their energy needs are met.  Developing alternative feedstock sources will take time.  If germany decides to follow the imf recommendations, they would have to lean on their citizens for however long that is.  Probably around 10-15 years - absorbing up to 14% higher energy costs - to spread the hit to german firms. The idea is that higher prices would decrease consumption on the one end, making more gas available for feedstock as opposed to energy - and on the other hand, increasing the value of the feedstock products so that making them wouldn't result in financial insolvency (or, more critically, lost revenue on a mountain of revenue).

Quote:By whom?

By any reasonable person 

Quote:I chose to live in Japan a long time ago. It's been a good choice. 

But since you have said you would rather go through a nuclear war than live in "Orwellian" China, I don't believe you see things clearly at all.

No, he sees things perfectly clear. Way clearer than you.

(March 4, 2023 at 7:59 am)Belacqua Wrote: But since you have said you would rather go through a nuclear war than live in "Orwellian" China, I don't believe you see things clearly at all. 

Not that Bel would know the first thing about fighting for one's convictions.

You have to have convictions to even consider whether (and how much) it would be worthwhile to sacrifice for them. Ukranians have made their decision, and, if you lacked conviction..their decision probably would seem ludicrous. That's how I tend to read russian simping of any sort. It's not an assertion of facts - these are all expendable.

It's a question - "why aren't these people the same raging dumpster fire I am?" One of the mysteries of the universe I guess.

(March 4, 2023 at 12:05 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You have to have convictions to even consider whether (and how much) it would be worthwhile to sacrifice for them.  

Exactly my point, with my comment above.

(March 4, 2023 at 7:59 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(March 4, 2023 at 6:51 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: are said to have been

By whom?

Quote:I am only saying that if you are picking a side you have to see clearly what side it is you have decided to be a part of.

I chose to live in Japan a long time ago. It's been a good choice. 

But since you have said you would rather go through a nuclear war than live in "Orwellian" China, I don't believe you see things clearly at all. 

I chose to live in New Zealand a long time ago. And I didn’t need to learn Japanese.

Boru

The Russians have completely flattened the city of Maryinka in eastern Ukraine.

This is what Russian "liberation" looks like

Quote:Russian diplomat Sergei Lavrov provokes laughter with claim his country is victim in Ukraine war

The veteran foreign minister was ridiculed at an Indian conference for suggesting that the West and Ukraine were the aggressors in the conflict.


Sergei Lavrov, Russia's longstanding foreign minister, provoked laughter from an audience at an international conference in India when he attempted to portray his country as the victim of the war in Ukraine.

Addressing the Raisina Dialogue, an event in New Delhi that debates the major challenges facing the world in politics and economics and one of few such events globally that still invites Russian politicians to attend, the 72-year-old staked the unlikely claim that Russia was trying to stop the war.

"The war, which we are trying to stop, which was launched against us using Ukrainian people, of course, influenced the policy of Russia, including energy policy," he said to a chorus of laughs and groans.

"And the blunt way to describe what changed: we would not anymore rely on any partners in the West. We would not allow them to blow the pipelines again," he continued, apparently referring to the explosions that caused damage to the Nord Stream pipeline in the Baltic Sea in September 2022.

https://news.sky.com/story/russian-diplo...r-12825048

I wonder what was the "special military operation"...

(March 5, 2023 at 5:27 am)pocaracas Wrote:

Quote:Russian diplomat Sergei Lavrov provokes laughter with claim his country is victim in Ukraine war

The veteran foreign minister was ridiculed at an Indian conference for suggesting that the West and Ukraine were the aggressors in the conflict.


Sergei Lavrov, Russia's longstanding foreign minister, provoked laughter from an audience at an international conference in India when he attempted to portray his country as the victim of the war in Ukraine.

Addressing the Raisina Dialogue, an event in New Delhi that debates the major challenges facing the world in politics and economics and one of few such events globally that still invites Russian politicians to attend, the 72-year-old staked the unlikely claim that Russia was trying to stop the war.

"The war, which we are trying to stop, which was launched against us using Ukrainian people, of course, influenced the policy of Russia, including energy policy," he said to a chorus of laughs and groans.

"And the blunt way to describe what changed: we would not anymore rely on any partners in the West. We would not allow them to blow the pipelines again," he continued, apparently referring to the explosions that caused damage to the Nord Stream pipeline in the Baltic Sea in September 2022.

https://news.sky.com/story/russian-diplo...r-12825048

I wonder what was the "special military operation"...

Lavrov is little more than a barely sentient bag of dumpster juice.

Boru

(March 5, 2023 at 5:27 am)pocaracas Wrote:

Quote:Russian diplomat Sergei Lavrov provokes laughter with claim his country is victim in Ukraine war

The veteran foreign minister was ridiculed at an Indian conference for suggesting that the West and Ukraine were the aggressors in the conflict.


Sergei Lavrov, Russia's longstanding foreign minister, provoked laughter from an audience at an international conference in India when he attempted to portray his country as the victim of the war in Ukraine.

Addressing the Raisina Dialogue, an event in New Delhi that debates the major challenges facing the world in politics and economics and one of few such events globally that still invites Russian politicians to attend, the 72-year-old staked the unlikely claim that Russia was trying to stop the war.

"The war, which we are trying to stop, which was launched against us using Ukrainian people, of course, influenced the policy of Russia, including energy policy," he said to a chorus of laughs and groans.

"And the blunt way to describe what changed: we would not anymore rely on any partners in the West. We would not allow them to blow the pipelines again," he continued, apparently referring to the explosions that caused damage to the Nord Stream pipeline in the Baltic Sea in September 2022.

https://news.sky.com/story/russian-diplo...r-12825048

I wonder what was the "special military operation"...

I have seen that too, unfortunately.

For days i am looking now for an unredacted version of this, since its quite obvious that the corporate media are trying to manipulate me, again. Can someone who is not on Bels ignore list ask him to kindly provide the original version of Lawrovs interview? From one of his unbiased and trustworthy sources, like people directly connected to Putin or so. The video where Lawrow was not made to lie his ass off and seemingly get laughed at for this.

After all the back and forth with Bel on this forum i am certain now, that Lawrow, a honest man working for a very honorable (and victimized by the west!) regime, would never stoop so low to lie so brazenly, with not the least effort even made to conceal his lies.

He said that the ukrainian people were "hurled" at Russia and Russia was forced into this war. If this is true, i am beginning to suspect that i was lied to (by the corporate media!) even more and longer than i thought. I was made to think Russian soldiers are standing on Ukrainian ground, which seems to be impossible, if Ukraine attacked Russia. Or did Russia just push them back? Where exactly did Ukraine attack Russia, where did ukrainian soldiers set foot on russian soil, any soldier on any part of Russia?  I am sure there is evidence. Pictures, vids, blogs. Somewhere outside the information sphere dominated by the corporate western media there must be the Truth!. Maybe somewhere in the Russian infosphere?

I am seriously suspecting the frontlines across the Donbass down to Crimea are entirely made up my western corporate media. I am sure the devastatedv illages in Ukraine, all the killed civilians, the war crimes, the drone strike. It all a lie! Ukrainians were hurled at Russia. I am looking for the Truth!

Please someone, preferably Bel, help me get out of this information bubble i found myself in.