(May 18, 2023 at 9:22 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: But specifically, it is dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin (mostly oxytocin) responsible for trust.

(May 18, 2023 at 10:17 pm)KerimF Wrote: In this case, I bet those who can have these chemicals in their body are rare on earth.

No, those chemicals are in everyone's brains. They're neurotransmitters. Our brains function electrochemically, and our moods and emotions are literally chemical reactions. The levels of the neurotransmitters in our brains can be high or low, and can be influenced by genetics, by environmental factors such as stress, and by pharmaceuticals (e.g. dopamine agonists, SSRIs or intranasal oxytocin).

(May 18, 2023 at 10:27 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(May 18, 2023 at 10:17 pm)KerimF Wrote: In this case, I bet those who can have these chemicals in their body are rare on earth.
Let us start from this forum and see how many couples trust each other really. It will be great news if we find one couple.

Do you think these chemicals let someone trust blindly another person?
Or perhaps, after someone starts to trust to no limit a person, his brain, in turn, starts synthesizing those chemicals to protect his trust from fading with time.

Truth be said, I am an atheist, speaking science because I believe in my science only and let the world's science to others (Sorry, this a big topic but I liked you know that I can't believe/trust blindly what may be provided as being special discoveries on any media).
.

 Then you need to do better.  Both in your application of understanding science and communication.

I told you it is a big topic, if not a very big one.
And, based on my personal observations and logical analyses, I can understand your reaction.
In my life I didn't find big difference between the reaction of religious believers and scientific believers when they hear something they are not familiar to.

About 40 years ago, I found a novel solution (in data communications) and applied it in my short-range RF voice links in the 80's (since it is not known, I used it also as a scrambling method). Now, in all universities around the world, students still learn that the solution, I know and took advantage of it, cannot exist. Should I believe the world or myself. This just one example of many.

Anyway, I am sorry for not being a devoted believer of the World's Science as you are. I can't add an idea, scientific or else, to my set of knowledge just because some others, or the world, say it is good for me to know. I have to analyze it personally, based on the same criteria on which all previous accepted ideas were analyzed. Only then I decide to accept it, reject it or keep it on standby for a later study.

For instance, I believe in what Jesus says because I found him agreeing with me on whatever I discovered in my life. So even if the entire world may deny him someday, I can't do the same unless I will decide to deny myself first and whatever I discovered about my existence and its relation to the world.

Anyway, this is just me.

(May 18, 2023 at 10:55 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(May 18, 2023 at 9:22 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: But specifically, it is dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin (mostly oxytocin) responsible for trust.

(May 18, 2023 at 10:17 pm)KerimF Wrote: In this case, I bet those who can have these chemicals in their body are rare on earth.

No, those chemicals are in everyone's brains.  They're neurotransmitters.  Our brains function electrochemically, and our moods and emotions are literally chemical reactions.  The levels of the neurotransmitters in our brains can be high or low, and can be influenced by genetics, by environmental factors such as stress, and by pharmaceuticals (e.g. dopamine agonists, SSRIs or intranasal oxytocin).

Oh My... Scientists proved that they are also preprogrammed to trust each other at work (thanks to some chemicals planted in their brains) much like robots which could be made and programmed to trust and work together on a certain project.

Soon I will hear that if someone opposes his instincts of survival and doesn't defend himself while he has all the means to destroy his attackers, he is driven to do so by certain chemicals planted in his brain. 

I think I have now a clear picture on why a person becomes an atheist or theist... It is all about chemicals. Some of them make atheists and many others make the various types of believers. It is indeed a very nice picture which explains all what we see in the world.

(May 18, 2023 at 11:57 pm)KerimF Wrote:

(May 18, 2023 at 10:27 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:  Then you need to do better.  Both in your application of understanding science and communication.

I told you it is a big topic, if not a very big one.
And, based on my personal observations and logical analyses, I can understand your reaction.
In my life I didn't find big difference between the reaction of religious believers and scientific believers when they hear something they are not familiar to.

About 40 years ago, I found a novel solution (in data communications) and applied it in my short-range RF voice links in the 80's (since it is not known, I used it also as a scrambling method). Now, in all universities around the world, students still learn that the solution, I know and took advantage of it, cannot exist. Should I believe the world or myself. This just one example of many.

Anyway, I am sorry for not being a devoted believer of the World's Science as you are. I can't add an idea, scientific or else, to my set of knowledge just because some others, or the world, say it is good for me to know. I have to analyze it personally, based on the same criteria on which all previous accepted ideas were analyzed. Only then I decide to accept it, reject it or keep it on standby for a later study.

For instance, I believe in what Jesus says because I found him agreeing with me on whatever I discovered in my life. So even if the entire world may deny him someday, I can't do the same unless I will decide to deny myself first and whatever I discovered about my existence and its relation to the world.

Anyway, this is just me.

How about this.

Start over.  It's glaringly obvious you are a theist of some sort, and so am I, I just happen to have the correct belief system and you don't.

Tell us about yourself and what you believe, Because this long drawn out trolling isn't going to get you anywhere. For one you are far too heavy-handed with the faux chagrins and 'Oh whelps'.

If you can do that you may get a conversation, If not then I will assume you to be a troll/Sock.

(May 19, 2023 at 12:23 am)KerimF Wrote: Oh My... Scientists proved that they are also preprogrammed to trust each other at work...

Unlikely to be programming. If scientists (or any other group of professionals working in the same area) trust one another at work, it's usually because of knowledge and trustworthy behaviour.

Quote:I think I have now a clear picture on why a person becomes an atheist or theist... It is all about chemicals. Some of them make atheists and many others make the various types of believers.

Incorrect again. Religion is largely driven by indoctrination in a religious environment. There is no difference between dopamine in a believer's brain and dopamine in an atheist's brain.

What is true is that many religious leaders deliberately employ psychological manipulation to create emotional states in believers.

While trust is a component of friendship, I don't think that trust necessitates friendship. For instance, I can trust so-and-so to do me harm, it doesn't make him my friend.

Unconditional love is nonsense. ALL love is conditional.

Boru

(May 17, 2023 at 7:35 am)KerimF Wrote: Hi,

My first point from this question is that if an atheist believes in the possible existence of friendship between two humans, how does he define the best friendship? (Please be aware, it is a tricky question )

Thank you.
Kerim

Yes. Just because we don't believe in gods it doesn't follow that we stop being human.

And objectively speaking, there is no such thing as a best friendship, as that is a subjective idea whose answer is unique to every person.

(May 18, 2023 at 10:35 pm)KerimF Wrote:

(May 18, 2023 at 10:08 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Sorry, couldn't sit through 12 pages of this nonsense.

Sorry, but it is your fault
You know in advance that friendship has nothing to do in your life.
And you have no time to read my posts seriously. 
But you insisted to waste your time and jumped onto this thread once a while to finally discover it is all about nonsense,


At school, some of my classmates saw Math study as being nonsense while I had to waste my time in studying History and Literature.
Humans are different by design; we like it or not.

So you claim to have gone to school?

(May 19, 2023 at 2:21 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(May 18, 2023 at 11:57 pm)KerimF Wrote: I told you it is a big topic, if not a very big one.
And, based on my personal observations and logical analyses, I can understand your reaction.
In my life I didn't find big difference between the reaction of religious believers and scientific believers when they hear something they are not familiar to.

About 40 years ago, I found a novel solution (in data communications) and applied it in my short-range RF voice links in the 80's (since it is not known, I used it also as a scrambling method). Now, in all universities around the world, students still learn that the solution, I know and took advantage of it, cannot exist. Should I believe the world or myself. This just one example of many.

Anyway, I am sorry for not being a devoted believer of the World's Science as you are. I can't add an idea, scientific or else, to my set of knowledge just because some others, or the world, say it is good for me to know. I have to analyze it personally, based on the same criteria on which all previous accepted ideas were analyzed. Only then I decide to accept it, reject it or keep it on standby for a later study.

For instance, I believe in what Jesus says because I found him agreeing with me on whatever I discovered in my life. So even if the entire world may deny him someday, I can't do the same unless I will decide to deny myself first and whatever I discovered about my existence and its relation to the world.

Anyway, this is just me.

How about this.

Start over.  It's glaringly obvious you are a theist of some sort, and so am I, I just happen to have the correct belief system and you don't.

Tell us about yourself and what you believe, Because this long drawn out trolling isn't going to get you anywhere. For one you are far too heavy-handed with the faux chagrins and 'Oh whelps'.

If you can do that you may get a conversation, If not then I will assume you to be a troll/Sock.

It seems that I have to repeat myself here because you surely didn't have time to read all I wrote.

First, I am a rational scientific man. I accept an idea while being based solely on reason (the same logical reasoning on which my scientific studies are based), so it is out of question for me to believe something based on faith.

Although I believe that I am supposed to be a biological robot which has to follow its preprogrammed various instructions (instincts, stimulated by chemicals), the only free-will I was also given is the ability to oppose any of these instructions whenever I want.
Naturally, if a robot is deigned to defend itself whenever it is attacked, it is not supposed to it to allow its attackers to destroy it while it was given all the means to destroy them first.
Some persons here insist that even 'not resisting evil' is due to the existence of some chemicals (extra preprogrammed instructions) whose role is to cancel the role of some other chemicals (as of survival). Since these persons call themselves atheists, we may say that an atheist is supposed to believe that he is somehow a perfect biological robot made just to serve the world till its End Of Service.

Now, you may ask for example:
What lets you decide not to resist evil?
I am afraid that the answer cannot be understood by robots even they want to.
I mean; Could they believe me that by doing this I simply feel a certain joy (not bounded by time or place), and by resisting evil I just feel I am another robot doing its job?
Please tell me, how many persons agree with me on this reaction other than Jesus (real or a fictional character) whom we heard of on the Gospel.

On the other hand, do I believe it is possible for a non-existent thing be useful in my life?
Of course, I do. Otherwise, I couldn't learn Geometry and Algebra to name a few.
They are based on many abstract non-existing things; as the notion of 'infinity' (parallel straights intersect at infinity) and imaginary numbers (based on the square root of -1).
So, it was natural for me to realize with time that behind the existence of my complex being (my complex robotic nature, in the least) there is a Will. But this belief has no practical information by itself unless I can also discover the nature of this Will.
So, let us suppose one gets a robot whose makers are unknown. How could he have a good idea of its unknown makers (the company which produced it)? As in movies about aliens from space, he starts finding out how it is made and for which reason it is made as well. This is exactly what I did by studying my own structure in order to have a realistic image of my unseen Maker.

Sorry, is it wise to go on while we are in an atheist forum? I have no intension to hurt, in any way, my atheist (also theists) friends here by giving them the impression that I am preaching.