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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 6:00 am
(May 20, 2023 at 5:38 am)KerimF Wrote: (May 19, 2023 at 11:57 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Shades of randian free will in here. The notion that the only real or actual freedom we possess is whether to employ whatever agency we possess. We are still who we are, it's still going to do what it's going to do.
I'm not so sure this is meaningfully different from the freedom an ai possesses. What's with all the design and "Company of the Will " nonsense, it doesn't seem to be doing anything, just a dangling assertion.
A kid noticed a beautiful big car and said to his father: Father, please tell me, who made this car.
The father gives him a 'name' (please replace the word 'name' with the brand you prefer  ). But to go on, let us replace it with the world 'BMW'.
The kid: Is BMW a man or a woman.
The father: Neither, it is just a name of a company.
The kid: Where and how does this company live?
The father: Son, a company is not a living being.
The kid: Is it a sort of robot then?
The father: No, it is not a robot. it exists as a group of people working together on making cars as the one you saw.
The kid: Oh, I see. May I conclude that 'BMW' refers to the 'common will' of the people forming this group, company, in making their cars?
The father: Good remark son. Who says that kids don't see things better than adults sometimes!
Sorry, I agree with the kid about what is known also as 'God' as being behind our existence. I guess, this doesn't make me as any known theist or an atheist... right?
So, you see God as a capitalist investor, enabling the production of overpriced goods by underpaid workers aimed at an elite market? You may have a point.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 6:12 am
(May 20, 2023 at 6:00 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (May 20, 2023 at 5:38 am)KerimF Wrote: A kid noticed a beautiful big car and said to his father: Father, please tell me, who made this car.
The father gives him a 'name' (please replace the word 'name' with the brand you prefer ). But to go on, let us replace it with the world 'BMW'.
The kid: Is BMW a man or a woman.
The father: Neither, it is just a name of a company.
The kid: Where and how does this company live?
The father: Son, a company is not a living being.
The kid: Is it a sort of robot then?
The father: No, it is not a robot. it exists as a group of people working together on making cars as the one you saw.
The kid: Oh, I see. May I conclude that 'BMW' refers to the 'common will' of the people forming this group, company, in making their cars?
The father: Good remark son. Who says that kids don't see things better than adults sometimes!
Sorry, I agree with the kid about what is known also as 'God' as being behind our existence. I guess, this doesn't make me as any known theist or an atheist... right?
So, you see God as a capitalist investor, enabling the production of overpriced goods by underpaid workers aimed at an elite market? You may have a point.
Boru
Your remark is very true if humans are all created to be like cars... biological robots to serve the world.
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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 6:50 am
Right, and after all of that, I'm still not sure that our freedom as you describe it is different than an ais, and the company of the will continues to be a dangling assertion.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 7:44 am
(May 20, 2023 at 6:50 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Right, and after all of that, I'm still not sure that our freedom as you describe it is different than an ais, and the company of the will continues to be a dangling assertion.
Sorry I am not sure how I should understand the word ais. Does it refer to AI robots?
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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 9:20 am
Yeah. Lay aside all of the factually problematic claims.
Let's just assume that people are designed and preprogrammed and all of that, and that the only freedom we may have is in selecting some course of action that isn't in our predefined routines. That doesn't sound like a difference between a human and an ai. That, if it were true, would be a similarity between us.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 9:44 am
(May 20, 2023 at 9:20 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Yeah. Lay aside all of the factually problematic claims.
Let's just assume that people are designed and preprogrammed and all of that, and that the only freedom we may have is in selecting some course of action that isn't in our predefined routines. That doesn't sound like a difference between a human and an ai. That, if it were true, would be a similarity between us.
Please don't tell me that an AI robot could also be programmed to oppose (not update his initial routines to be new ones as in the evolution process) any of his routines (original or updated). But if you like you can anytime give me an example since I can't find one. Thank you.
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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 9:48 am
(May 20, 2023 at 9:44 am)KerimF Wrote: (May 20, 2023 at 9:20 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Yeah. Lay aside all of the factually problematic claims.
Let's just assume that people are designed and preprogrammed and all of that, and that the only freedom we may have is in selecting some course of action that isn't in our predefined routines. That doesn't sound like a difference between a human and an ai. That, if it were true, would be a similarity between us.
Please don't tell me that an AI robot could also be programmed to oppose (not update his initial routines to be new ones as in the evolution process) any of his routines (original or updated). But if you like you can anytime give me an example since I can't find one. Thank you.
Okay, we won't tell you. You seem to prefer ignorance anyway.
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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 9:55 am
(This post was last modified: May 20, 2023 at 9:55 am by KerimF.)
(May 20, 2023 at 9:48 am)Angrboda Wrote: (May 20, 2023 at 9:44 am)KerimF Wrote: Please don't tell me that an AI robot could also be programmed to oppose (not update his initial routines to be new ones as in the evolution process) any of his routines (original or updated). But if you like you can anytime give me an example since I can't find one. Thank you.
Okay, we won't tell you. You seem to prefer ignorance anyway.
I am sorry for disturbing your mind's peace  ...minds in plural since you didn't say... Okay, I won't tell you.
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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 10:53 am
(This post was last modified: May 20, 2023 at 10:54 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 20, 2023 at 9:44 am)KerimF Wrote: (May 20, 2023 at 9:20 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Yeah. Lay aside all of the factually problematic claims.
Let's just assume that people are designed and preprogrammed and all of that, and that the only freedom we may have is in selecting some course of action that isn't in our predefined routines. That doesn't sound like a difference between a human and an ai. That, if it were true, would be a similarity between us.
Please don't tell me that an AI robot could also be programmed to oppose (not update his initial routines to be new ones as in the evolution process) any of his routines (original or updated). But if you like you can anytime give me an example since I can't find one. Thank you.
I think you did find an example, immediately, as your paranthetical qualification suggests.
-but lets run with it. Yes, it would be relatively simple to program a machine to reject it's programming. That is..literally, a one step process. It's still programming, though, isn't it? Is that what you mean by our human freedom? That we're programmed to reject our programming, whereas "robots" are not programmed to reject their programming?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship?
May 20, 2023 at 11:42 am
I can't handle rejection. Just sayin'.
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