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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 12:07 pm
(July 5, 2023 at 11:44 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: (July 5, 2023 at 11:26 am)Helios Wrote: We have been over this. That thinking is pure bullshit
No, it's more-or-less the application of the principles of evidence-based-medicine to politics. No it is not
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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 12:08 pm
(July 5, 2023 at 11:33 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: (July 5, 2023 at 11:25 am)Helios Wrote: Nowhere in empiricism does it say you should embrace shitty studies because it's better then nothing.
Tell me, what does "evidence-based medicine" mean? It's one application of empiricism. Then try to apply that to politics to understand what "evidence-based policy" means. This isn't ''evidence-based " anything
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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 12:52 pm
Let's test this notion.
What, in your estimation Flat.... is the greatest disparity between current croatian policy and an evidence based policy?
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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 2:19 pm
(July 5, 2023 at 12:07 pm)Helios Wrote: (July 5, 2023 at 11:44 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: No, it's more-or-less the application of the principles of evidence-based-medicine to politics. No it is not
The philosophy of evidence-based medicine was, ahem, inspired by the case of Ignaz Semmelweis. Semmelweis made a study which was widely perceived as flawed and having implausible conclusions... but which turned out, decades later, to be right (when Louis Pasteur formulated the Germ Theory, which gave a convincing theoretical explanation for the Semmelweis'es findings).
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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 2:25 pm
(July 5, 2023 at 2:19 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: (July 5, 2023 at 12:07 pm)Helios Wrote: No it is not
The philosophy of evidence-based medicine was, ahem, inspired by the case of Ignaz Semmelweis. Semmelweis made a study which was widely perceived as flawed and having implausible conclusions... but which turned out, decades later, to be right (when Louis Pasteur formulated the Germ Theory, which gave a convincing theoretical explanation for the Semmelweis'es findings).
Actually, EBM is almost as old as the history of medicine itself. Its modern form is attributed to Avicenna, who predates Semmelweis by at least a couple of weeks.
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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 2:31 pm
(July 5, 2023 at 2:25 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (July 5, 2023 at 2:19 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: The philosophy of evidence-based medicine was, ahem, inspired by the case of Ignaz Semmelweis. Semmelweis made a study which was widely perceived as flawed and having implausible conclusions... but which turned out, decades later, to be right (when Louis Pasteur formulated the Germ Theory, which gave a convincing theoretical explanation for the Semmelweis'es findings).
Actually, EBM is almost as old as the history of medicine itself. Its modern form is attributed to Avicenna, who predates Semmelweis by at least a couple of weeks.
Boru
Never heard of that one. As far as I understand it, it's the flawed responses to the Semmelweis'es findings (by Levy...) that led to evidence-based medicine. Scientists of the time were responding to the Semmelweis'es findings by trying to make his conclusions look unlikely (that the quantities of the poison are implausibly small) and by pointing the perceived flaws in the Semmelweis'es study, instead of attempting to make a better study.
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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 2:35 pm
(July 5, 2023 at 2:31 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: (July 5, 2023 at 2:25 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Actually, EBM is almost as old as the history of medicine itself. Its modern form is attributed to Avicenna, who predates Semmelweis by at least a couple of weeks.
Boru
Never heard of that one. As far as I understand it, it's the flawed responses to the Semmelweis'es findings (by Levy...) that led to evidence-based medicine. Scientists of the time were responding to the Semmelweis'es findings by trying to make his conclusions look unlikely (that the quantities of the poison are implausibly small) and by pointing the perceived flaws in the Semmelweis'es study, instead of attempting to make a better study.
I’m sure there’s lots of things I’ve heard of that you haven’t.
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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 2:44 pm
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2023 at 2:53 pm by FlatAssembler.
Edit Reason: Explained what "following the evidence" would be...
)
(July 5, 2023 at 2:35 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (July 5, 2023 at 2:31 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: Never heard of that one. As far as I understand it, it's the flawed responses to the Semmelweis'es findings (by Levy...) that led to evidence-based medicine. Scientists of the time were responding to the Semmelweis'es findings by trying to make his conclusions look unlikely (that the quantities of the poison are implausibly small) and by pointing the perceived flaws in the Semmelweis'es study, instead of attempting to make a better study.
I’m sure there’s lots of things I’ve heard of that you haven’t.
Boru
And I'm also sure I've heard a lot of things that you haven't. Yes, there were people way before Semmelweis who rejected blood-letting on the grounds that studies show that people who have been bled do not survive at a higher rate than people who haven't been, but their philosophy of following the evidence wasn't mainstream in medicine all until the end of the 19th century. Levy and other people objecting to Semmelweis'es findings were not following the evidence. Following the evidence would be to either accept the Semmelweis'es findings (as they are the best evidence available) or to attempt to make a better experiment.
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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 3:12 pm
(July 5, 2023 at 2:44 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: (July 5, 2023 at 2:35 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I’m sure there’s lots of things I’ve heard of that you haven’t.
Boru
And I'm also sure I've heard a lot of things that you haven't. Yes, there were people way before Semmelweis who rejected blood-letting on the grounds that studies show that people who have been bled do not survive at a higher rate than people who haven't been, but their philosophy of following the evidence wasn't mainstream in medicine all until the end of the 19th century. Levy and other people objecting to Semmelweis'es findings were not following the evidence. Following the evidence would be to either accept the Semmelweis'es findings (as they are the best evidence available) or to attempt to make a better experiment.
Avicenna proposed evidence-based medicine (although it wasn’t called that) and wrote 40 books on the subject eight centuries before Semmelweis was a gleam in the milkman’s eye. Many physicians (notably van Helmont) were arguing against bloodletting as early as the 1600s. Controlled clinical trials were being conduct almost a hundred years before Semmelweis was born.
I’m not saying Semmelweis wasn’t right - he absolutely was and he was treated shabbily by his contemporaries. But to claim that his work ‘inspired’ EBM isn’t borne out by the facts.
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RE: Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
July 5, 2023 at 3:37 pm
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2023 at 3:39 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 5, 2023 at 12:52 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Let's test this notion.
What, in your estimation Flat.... is the greatest disparity between current croatian policy and an evidence based policy?
Come on, say it, don't pretend you didn't see it asked. Then we might have a candid understanding of why you might be treated as a child of violence, and all the rest of the predictably garbage opinions you've expressed.
Be yourself my dude...what's the harm? Are you not...actually...a true believer?
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