Should this discipline be required in college? Should students who are pursuing unrelated degrees be required to take any philosophy classes at all at university? Why or why not?

What about History? Should business majors be required to take History 101? Why or why not?

Personally, I think philosophy is largely useless unless one thinks that politics, law, or morality is useful. So, therefore, I tend to think that most philosophy courses are useless to those who pursue business degrees and such. Even scientists, though they may be interested in philosophy, and not too shabby at philosophizing either... philosophy doesn't help science much at all. Even philosophy of science doesn't help science. Let alone the rest of it.

But I do think philosophy is immensely useful to those who pursue political science or law. Maybe even science to some degree. But, meh. Only so useful to scientists...

I think two philosophy courses ought to be required of all students: ethics 101 and logic 101. Beyond that, philosophy is useless to the vast majority of professions.

Philosophy can get people thinking in a different way, as it did for me. But overall its value will only be perceived by those interested. And it is not at all necessary for the average person.

I found philosophy courses very useful in writing term papers - if you can't write 5000 words of bullshit on a bullshit subject, you shouldn't be at university in the first place.

Boru

Required...maybe not. You don't need to be an aeronautical engineer to be a pilot. There's at least one philosophy, at least one methodology, to every fact-making subject matter..though. Useful? Yes. It's the study of thinking, and no matter what we happen to be thinking about...well.

A public defender does not need to know the legal philosophy underpinning the relevant laws. As far as I've been told, it's actually a pretty bad idea in a bench or jury trial to hang your case on a philosophy lesson. Either every t was crossed and every I dotted, or they were not. It doesn't matter why.

I think the trouble with ethics 101 and logic 101 -as we do it- is that it often amounts to cultural (or at least cognitive and semantic) normativism. The point, we imagine, is to broaden horizons and possibilities - but how we can do so by reciting the central assertions of our traditions is beyond me. So we decide we need to teach people ethics..whatever specific crisis we're responding to in that notion colors how we teach ethics. This has absolutely plagued western post modernism.

(my daughter got back from one of those three day mock government at the captial things today. I heard all of her (extremely limited) education in philosophy at play as she explained her single issue vote on two subjects - one for one against. She felt proud and she got noticed, so it's useful at least for that...philosophy is probably even at least part of why she's here to tell me the story)

"No philosopher ever came out of a debate/deep dive/etc. with more than he went in with." Jubal Harshaw, I think.

(November 14, 2023 at 7:45 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I found philosophy courses very useful in writing term papers - if you can't write 5000 words of bullshit on a bullshit subject, you shouldn't be at university in the first place.

Boru

"The Superiority of the Triangular Command Structure over the Pentacular Command Structure in Intra-Service Decision Confirmation and Execution." Got me an "A". The prof returned the paper without noticing that pages 29 and 30 were stuck together in three places.

It's good for a Liberal Arts degree. It's useful for PoliSci.

(November 14, 2023 at 7:51 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: So we decide we need to teach people ethics..whatever specific crisis we're responding to in that notion colors how we teach ethics.  

I'm not so sure we need to teach people ethics. The reason I espouse ethics 101 is that it teaches people to think about ethics. The hard problems with it. But also, how you can't just dismiss it.

Quote:This has absolutely plagued western post modernism.

I like postmodernism. But, if I had one criticism, I think postmodernists are too skeptical about ethics. Like, being skeptical about ethics is a good thing. But dismississing all ethics, or indeed any truth statement, because it must come from a certain perspective goes too far imo.

When dissent built on well founded skepticism of traditional ideas becomes the traditional idea. All the more absurd when the traditional ideas are abandoned and the the now- new tradition has to pick fights with even newer enemies it never anticipated or could have conceived of in order to maintain it's hard earned hegemony.

-ah, but that's philosophy.

(November 14, 2023 at 7:30 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Should this discipline be required in college? Should students who are pursuing unrelated degrees be required to take any philosophy classes at all at university? Why or why not?

What about History? Should business majors be required to take History 101? Why or why not?

Personally, I think philosophy is largely useless unless one thinks that politics, law, or morality is useful. So, therefore, I tend to think that most philosophy courses are useless to those who pursue business degrees and such. Even scientists, though they may be interested in philosophy, and not too shabby at philosophizing either... philosophy doesn't help science much at all. Even philosophy of science doesn't help science. Let alone the rest of it.

But I do think philosophy is immensely useful to those who pursue political science or law. Maybe even science to some degree. But, meh. Only so useful to scientists...

I think two philosophy courses ought to be required of all students: ethics 101 and logic 101. Beyond that, philosophy is useless to the vast majority of professions.

The best things in life are useless.