Religions don't have to be about divine commandments, tribal ascendancy, doctrines that serve the powerful, or straight-up bullshit.

They can be personal - a way to view the world where the "self" is integrated into something larger. Personal religion that is coupled to reason can be part of a resilient happy life.

The problem comes when someone tries to convince others their personal religion is true, and creates an "in" crowd of believers.

Nope, I'm not an anti-theist. Maybe if I get to pick and choose by individual people.

Does the question boil down, for most here, to simply whether you think religion is a force for good or ill in the world?

(December 5, 2023 at 6:17 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Does the question boil down, for most here, to simply whether you think religion is a force for good or ill in the world?

Both.

Sure. But to me the harm vastly outweighs any good. There's little good that stems from religion that couldn't be had without, IMHO.

(December 5, 2023 at 6:34 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Sure.  But to me the harm vastly outweighs any good.  There's little good that stems from religion that couldn't be had without, IMHO.

And there is plenty of bad that has nothing to do with religion.

(December 5, 2023 at 6:15 pm)brewer Wrote: Nope, I'm not an anti-theist. Maybe if I get to pick and choose by individual people.

I'm anti-theism.

(December 5, 2023 at 10:02 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 6:15 pm)brewer Wrote: Nope, I'm not an anti-theist. Maybe if I get to pick and choose by individual people.

I'm anti-theism.

Good for you.

(December 5, 2023 at 10:21 pm)brewer Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 10:02 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I'm anti-theism.

Good for you.

I think theists should be rewarded for their beliefs. You can't go to heaven if you suicide, but it you die for your faith you're a shoo in. So...

(December 5, 2023 at 7:52 pm)brewer Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 6:34 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Sure.  But to me the harm vastly outweighs any good.  There's little good that stems from religion that couldn't be had without, IMHO.

And there is plenty of bad that has nothing to do with religion.

Which would be irrelevant to the equation.

Should we keep smallpox? Plenty of bad from it, little good.  It doesn't matter that there's many other bad things aside from smallpox. We should get rid of smallpox with our wand. Likewise poverty, ignorance, influenza, and anything else we are better off without - like religion. The only real question is: Does religion do more harm than good. I think it a clear yes.