Horoscopes are possibly true too depending on how they are interpreted.

(June 11, 2024 at 1:22 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 12:51 pm)Fireball Wrote: All that preaching from the Q-guy. 

Alas, answering a serious question requires a serious answer, and when asked for hard proof, I gave it.

I note you do not dispute what I said, only complain that I said it.

It's not even wrong, it's inane. I don't generally engage with your type. You're joining Bel and Ahri on my ignore list.

(June 11, 2024 at 2:18 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 1:22 pm)Questor Wrote: Alas, answering a serious question requires a serious answer, and when asked for hard proof, I gave it.

I note you do not dispute what I said, only complain that I said it.

It's not even wrong, it's inane. I don't generally engage with your type. You're joining Bel and Ahri on my ignore list.

Opinons differ, as they should in any sensible conversation. Enjoy your echo chamber.

(June 11, 2024 at 2:08 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Horoscopes are possibly true too depending on how they are interpreted.

"You will meet a tall dark stranger" well, how soon, how tall and how strange? details matter!

(June 11, 2024 at 1:58 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 1:40 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Funny thing about prophecy.  The probability of it being fulfilled goes way up when people consciously intend to bring about its fulfillment.  I wonder why?

Yes, prophecy fulfillment should be easy if one has a simple prognostication, and a united group to fulfill the terms stated, with complete control of the events on the ground.  

However, when the prophecies are made over some twenty-five hundred years apart from the fulfillment, and take decades and a mass of people doing just the right thing at the right time even in opposition to it, and with all involved unable to discern when fulfillment is actually possible, or what geopolitical acts might be necessary to create the climate for fulfillment, such prophecy fulfillment argues a level of control outside human hands.

lol, no it doesn’t. If geopolitics is needful for the fulfillment of prophecy, then such fulfillment is entirely in human hands.

Boru

(June 11, 2024 at 3:01 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 2:18 pm)Fireball Wrote: It's not even wrong, it's inane. I don't generally engage with your type. You're joining Bel and Ahri on my ignore list.

Opinons differ, as they should in any sensible conversation. Enjoy your echo chamber.

Interesting how you know nicknames already.

A whole group of people around the world determined to resettle their homeland and then doing it with the help of the international community isn't exactly fulfilling prophecy.

It's on par with, "I'm going out to dinner tonight!", and then claiming I'm a prophet because I did.

(June 11, 2024 at 2:08 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Horoscopes are possibly true too depending on how they are interpreted.

I don't see horoscopes as being able to be directly predictive over any period of time, or able to be proven, as they are the opinon of the person giving the horoscope. By their nature, they are ever changing based on the movements of the stars for a single individual, and suggest presumptive occurrences rather than specifically naming them.

Biblical prophecies are usually open warnings to the people concerned, namely Israel, or statements of future events that amend the results of said warnings. The first are to warn them of what they need to do, or not do to escape the consequences of their behavior. When disregarded, they have the predicted consequences laid out clearly. When not a warning, but a statement of future clemency, they are descriptions of future events that amend or relieve the consequences already received. 

Interpretation does not seem to be necessary of prophecies as given by YHWH to the prophet. Descriptions of visions of the future seen by various prophets are another kettle of fish altogether, even if warnings of events to come. What was seen in a dream-like trance, particularly of far future events, probably made no sense to the prophets, who duly noted them down as directed to and left the understanding of them to the time in which they occur.

But I am not an expert in prophecy, nor a diviner of dreams.

(June 11, 2024 at 3:41 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 2:08 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Horoscopes are possibly true too depending on how they are interpreted.

I don't see horoscopes as being able to be directly predictive over any period of time, or able to be proven, as they are the opinon of the person giving the horoscope. By their nature, they are ever changing based on the movements of the stars for a single individual, and suggest presumptive occurrences rather than specifically naming them.

Biblical prophecies are usually open warnings to the people concerned, namely Israel, or statements of future events that amend the results of said warnings. The first are to warn them of what they need to do, or not do to escape the consequences of their behavior. When disregarded, they have the predicted consequences laid out clearly. When not a warning, but a statement of future clemency, they are descriptions of future events that amend or relieve the consequences already received. 

Interpretation does not seem to be necessary of prophecies as given by YHWH to the prophet. Descriptions of visions of the future seen by various prophets are another kettle of fish altogether, even if warnings of events to come. What was seen in a dream-like trance, particularly of far future events, probably made no sense to the prophets, who duly noted them down as directed to and left the understanding of them to the time in which they occur.

But I am not an expert in prophecy, nor a diviner of dreams.

How can the movement of a star hundreds or thousands of light years away have any effect on a person? A car driving past will have a greater gravitational field than a distant star, I can't think of any other force that a star can produce. (the same is also true for planets too!)

(June 11, 2024 at 3:53 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 3:41 pm)Questor Wrote: I don't see horoscopes as being able to be directly predictive over any period of time, or able to be proven, as they are the opinon of the person giving the horoscope. By their nature, they are ever changing based on the movements of the stars for a single individual, and suggest presumptive occurrences rather than specifically naming them.

Biblical prophecies are usually open warnings to the people concerned, namely Israel, or statements of future events that amend the results of said warnings. The first are to warn them of what they need to do, or not do to escape the consequences of their behavior. When disregarded, they have the predicted consequences laid out clearly. When not a warning, but a statement of future clemency, they are descriptions of future events that amend or relieve the consequences already received. 

Interpretation does not seem to be necessary of prophecies as given by YHWH to the prophet. Descriptions of visions of the future seen by various prophets are another kettle of fish altogether, even if warnings of events to come. What was seen in a dream-like trance, particularly of far future events, probably made no sense to the prophets, who duly noted them down as directed to and left the understanding of them to the time in which they occur.

But I am not an expert in prophecy, nor a diviner of dreams.

How can the movement of a star hundreds or thousands of light years away have any effect on a person? A car driving past will have a greater gravitational field than a distant star, I can't think of any other force that a star can produce. (the same is also true for planets too!)

I don't know, but some people are quite entranced by the idea. 

I believe the point being made was that the liklihood of prophecy being accurate was akin to that of a horoscope being accurate.

I might check your horoscope, if I knew how to do so, but how would I ever discern its accuracy? It would be about your personal life, and how you subjectively saw it to apply to you. 

Prophecy being specifically targeted to the history of a well-tracked group of people allows each prophecy to be checked objectively.