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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 1:52 pm
(September 17, 2024 at 1:44 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: (September 17, 2024 at 1:39 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: The whole point is that he did lose them by getting less votes but was handed power by some shady group. Person who get less votes in presidential elections isn't usually called winner unless something deeply undemocratic happens.
The 'shady group' being large states with low populations? Maybe we're using different definitions of 'shady'? Mine is 'something of doubtful honesty or legality'. It's a bad way to run a national election, but that doesn't make it dishonest or illegal.
The shady group being the founding fathers, who didnt have a clue in the first place, when they tried to implement "kind of" democracy, and then added the very mechanism to circumvent the will of a majority for....reasons.
Same with the founders of Weimar, who tried to implement "kinda" democracy, while still trying to keep the position of a "strong man" (Reichspräsident) for....reasons.
In both cases they thought they were smarter than the people/electorate for whom they wrote the constitution. In both cases it worked, until it didnt for one.....and we are still waiting to see the result for the latter.
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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 2:04 pm
(September 17, 2024 at 1:39 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: (September 17, 2024 at 1:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: ‘The will of the people’ isn’t the issue. It never has been.
Boru
Jawohl. If you say so then it is so. 
If the ‘jawohl’ is some sort of implication that I’m a Nazi, I’d advise you to stop it.
If you would take the trouble to learn about the history of the US political system, you’d understand that their founders had a deep distrust of letting the Great Unwashed decide things. This isn’t because I say so, it’s simply a fact.
Boru
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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 2:08 pm
(This post was last modified: September 17, 2024 at 2:15 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(September 17, 2024 at 2:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 17, 2024 at 1:39 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: Jawohl. If you say so then it is so.
If the ‘jawohl’ is some sort of implication that I’m a Nazi, I’d advise you to stop it.
If you would take the trouble to learn about the history of the US political system, you’d understand that their founders had a deep distrust of letting the Great Unwashed decide things. This isn’t because I say so, it’s simply a fact.
Boru
I don't give a damn about what bunch of dudes in wigs thought (or wigs were already passe back then?). System they designed tramples over will of the people and thus I deem it to be nothing more than pile of shit. If you don't agree then, well. You're just some random whose words hold no relevance to my opinions about politics.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 2:15 pm
(September 17, 2024 at 2:08 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: (September 17, 2024 at 2:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If the ‘jawohl’ is some sort of implication that I’m a Nazi, I’d advise you to stop it.
If you would take the trouble to learn about the history of the US political system, you’d understand that their founders had a deep distrust of letting the Great Unwashed decide things. This isn’t because I say so, it’s simply a fact.
Boru
I don't give a damn about what bunch of dudes in wigs thought (or wigs were already passe back then?). System they designed tramples over will of the people and thus I deem it to be nothing more than pile of shit. If you don't agree then, well. You're just some random whose words hold no relevance to my opinions about politics.
Of COURSE the EC system tramples over the will of the people. It’s a lousy, outdated system and needs to be either abolished or changed to require the EC vote to mirror the popular vote. But it’s neither shady nor corrupt - it’s simply wrong.
And it seems to me that you care a very great deal ‘about what [a] bunch of dudes in wigs thought’.
Boru
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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 2:18 pm
(September 17, 2024 at 2:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 17, 2024 at 2:08 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: I don't give a damn about what bunch of dudes in wigs thought (or wigs were already passe back then?). System they designed tramples over will of the people and thus I deem it to be nothing more than pile of shit. If you don't agree then, well. You're just some random whose words hold no relevance to my opinions about politics.
Of COURSE the EC system tramples over the will of the people. It’s a lousy, outdated system and needs to be either abolished or changed to require the EC vote to mirror the popular vote. But it’s neither shady nor corrupt - it’s simply wrong.
And it seems to me that you care a very great deal ‘about what [a] bunch of dudes in wigs thought’.
Boru
And exactly because it tramples over said will it is both shady and corrupt. I don't require you to agree but your proclamations will have no effect.
What seems to you and what is the truth are wildly different things but whatever helps you sleep I guess.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 2:20 pm
(September 17, 2024 at 2:18 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: (September 17, 2024 at 2:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Of COURSE the EC system tramples over the will of the people. It’s a lousy, outdated system and needs to be either abolished or changed to require the EC vote to mirror the popular vote. But it’s neither shady nor corrupt - it’s simply wrong.
And it seems to me that you care a very great deal ‘about what [a] bunch of dudes in wigs thought’.
Boru
And exactly because it tramples over said will it is both shady and corrupt. I don't require you to agree but your proclamations will have no effect.
What seems to you and what is the truth are wildly different things but whatever helps you sleep I guess.
I sleep just fine, thank you for your concern.
Is it fun for you, assigning your own meanings to things? 
Boru
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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 2:26 pm
(September 17, 2024 at 2:20 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 17, 2024 at 2:18 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: And exactly because it tramples over said will it is both shady and corrupt. I don't require you to agree but your proclamations will have no effect.
What seems to you and what is the truth are wildly different things but whatever helps you sleep I guess.
I sleep just fine, thank you for your concern.
Is it fun for you, assigning your own meanings to things?
Boru
It's fun for me to see you blather while you're unable to grasp a simplest point. Whatever view other people have or had I don't have to share it.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
Mikhail Bakunin.
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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 2:44 pm
(September 17, 2024 at 2:26 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: (September 17, 2024 at 2:20 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I sleep just fine, thank you for your concern.
Is it fun for you, assigning your own meanings to things?
Boru
It's fun for me to see you blather while you're unable to grasp a simplest point. Whatever view other people have or had I don't have to share it.
I got your point: you don’t like that it’s the EC and not the popular vote that chooses USian presidents. As far as that goes, we’re in complete agreement.
Naturally, you’re entitled to your own views. What you’re not entitled to are your own facts.
Boru
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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 2:52 pm
(September 17, 2024 at 2:44 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 17, 2024 at 2:26 pm)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: It's fun for me to see you blather while you're unable to grasp a simplest point. Whatever view other people have or had I don't have to share it.
I got your point: you don’t like that it’s the EC and not the popular vote that chooses USian presidents. As far as that goes, we’re in complete agreement.
Naturally, you’re entitled to your own views. What you’re not entitled to are your own facts.
Boru
You were doing so well with your first sentence, but failed abysmally with next ones. Where I make my own facts? I deem EC to be shady and corrupt, nowhere I state this to be a fact. I present my opinions here, nothing else but believe what you wish. Nothing hinges on it after all.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
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RE: 2024 US Presidential Election
September 17, 2024 at 3:11 pm
(This post was last modified: September 17, 2024 at 3:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Corrupt...probably...but by some lights it's entire purpose is explicitly corrupt so that's working as intended. In that view, it was an abberation when it -wasn't- reliably shitting on the will of the people. If the ec could be gamed to insure the will of the people that would actually be a corruption of it's intended purpose.
It could be, btw. There's no move one of the two players could make that the other could not. The harris campaign could microtarget the same demos in the same counties that the trump campaign has.
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