"What danger could there be when god is on your side, watching over you, and protecting you? If god can't protect you from a home invasion, then what kind of fucking god is he?"

the God human relationship is often compared to a father son relationship in the bible. does a father constantly protect his son from the world? or he teach him how to protect himself?

"Depends on which god you worship. And who said anything about throwing away anything?"

so we're in agreeance that we should keep blessings God has given us and not throw it away.

"You don't even know how to spell the word 'metaphor', so we're not surprised that you gave a stupid answer."

well i'm not concerned with spelling, and it was a stupid metaphor, i have no idea what he's trying to say.

"It wasn't memorable. Just a bunch of greetings."

oh ok, at least they weren't personal attacks

(December 30, 2011 at 11:46 am)chipan Wrote: "What danger could there be when god is on your side, watching over you, and protecting you? If god can't protect you from a home invasion, then what kind of fucking god is he?"

the God human relationship is often compared to a father son relationship in the bible. does a father constantly protect his son from the world? or he teach him how to protect himself?

A father would try and teach his son how to protect himself, but there is no evidence of any god teaching you fools how to protect yourselves.

(December 30, 2011 at 11:46 am)chipan Wrote: "Depends on which god you worship. And who said anything about throwing away anything?"

so we're in agreeance that we should keep blessings God has given us and not throw it away.

Well, no. The Demigod, Jesus, spoke tirelessly against wealth, and said you should give your excess to charity.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=ESV

Need I go on?

"A father would try and teach his son how to protect himself, but there is no evidence of any god teaching you fools how to protect yourselves."

you learn through experience. does the father keep you in his house or does he kick you out at some point?

"Well, no. The Demigod, Jesus, spoke tirelessly against wealth, and said you should give your excess to charity."

i agree with this, but is it also wrong to keep some as you give some away? and don't call Jesus a demigod, he is not a greek myth.

The metaphor that Aleia was using I think is basically saying both theists and atheists do what is considered sinful all the same. As in just because someone is a theist doesn't mean they necessarily act better.

Chip, I am a recently deconverted Christian who has arrived where I am at now through a lot of thinking, reading, and discussion. If you want to see some atheist arguments there is a document you can DL here -

http://atheistforums.org/thread-10098.html

I wrote this document but if you read it I think you will get a fairly good idea of where a lot of atheists are coming from. One last thing to remember is atheism is simply an expression of a lack of believe/being convinced. Whatever life people choose to live and the morals they choose to follow comes from something else.

Atheism is not a philosophy but simply a response of being unconvinced of theistic claims.

(December 30, 2011 at 8:41 am)chipan Wrote: "Why would these theist sign up, in the first place, on a forum that does not share their ideals and beliefs?"

well i signed up to learn from athiests by starting intelligent discussions about certain evidences supporting their beliefs. though i find most do not support their claims.

"How many of us on this forum are members of a Christian forum? I guess none. Why? Because Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) does not threaten us."

well maybe you are not willing to open up to learn about other religious ideals. i've researched many religions, and having debates allows me to encourage myself to research my religion and others. i do not feel threatened by athiests.

I'm afraid I have no evidence to offer you for why I don't believe in gods. There are plenty of things claimed in the world's religions as well as in works of fiction for which I find no evidence and so I develop no belief in them. But, like you, I've been interested to research religious beliefs around the world and have found that they have much in common. Have you read any of Joseph Campbell? His identification of common motifs arising again and again in different places raises some interesting questions. One explanation for the prevalence of religious experience could be that there really are godly beings who interact with humans. Of course, it could also be that it tells us something basic about the way we're wired and how we function at a deep level psychologically. I assume the latter.

I'd like to ask you a couple questions. First, knowing that the bible only came into being many generations after the life of Jesus, why do you insist on its inerrancy? Unlike the stone tablets which Moses was said to have received directly from God, the bible went through a period of time during which it only existed as an oral tradition before anything was written down. Eventually a council of men decided which written bits would be included. Add to this the problem of translation from the original Aramaic through other languages before it ever made it into English. So why do so many Christians insist on taking the bible literally? I can see why it would be precious to you and you would be justified in insisting that there is much wisdom in it .. but all of it? Really? Even Leviticus which says you may sell your daughter into slavery and acquire slaves yourself?

Second, why would you expect to get answers to empirical questions from the bible? Knowing how and when the bible was cobbled together it seems an unlikely choice? You say the relationship between God and man is that of father and son. So why would God give man a mind capable of utilizing the scientific method if what he really wanted was for them to infer the answers to all such questions from the bible? This seems inconsistent to me.

I have lots of questions but lets see if you're in the mood to think about these first. It is up to you.

"The metaphor that Aleia was using I think is basically saying both theists and atheists do what is considered sinful all the same. As in just because someone is a theist doesn't mean they necessarily act better."

i agree with this. all have sinned and all have fallen short of the glory of God. i don't pretend to act better than anyone else reguardless of religious beliefs.

"Atheism is not a philosophy but simply a response of being unconvinced of theistic claims."

well i feel sorry for you then. i see God all over in my life and the fact that you don't see it only deprives you from a God filled life. i'll look at your document, i came to this form b/c i'm always looking for the truth, and i find that i learn more from those who have different beliefs than me than those of the same.

---

ok nevermind, i don't have microsoft office so i can't see it. sorry

(December 30, 2011 at 12:12 pm)chipan Wrote: don't call Jesus a demigod, he is not a greek myth.

He's not Greek, anyway.

(December 30, 2011 at 11:19 am)chipan Wrote: just b/c God protects us doesn't mean we should put ourselves in danger.

I didn't say anything about self-harm. Try reading what I posted for a change. As aleialoura pointed out 'What danger is there if the almighty is watching over you? What kind of God won't protect you from harm?'. Obviously a useless god unworthy of worship or reverence if he can't or won't protect his own "children".

Quote:should we throw away the blessings God has given us on earth?

Because cherishing and holding onto ANYTHING in this world, be it money, material and/or possessions is frowned upon by your God no less. In Matthew's teachings it warns about gaining the world and losing your soul. Yet it seems Christians don't let that trivium stop their ambitions and are very well-to-do and prosperous.

Quote:sure it does, however we wash our dirty laundry. you post a stupid metaphore don't be surprised if you get a stupid answer.

So you're saying... we don't wash ours. The fuck are you on kid? And kindly learn to spell or cut-and-paste at least if you're lazy.

(December 30, 2011 at 11:46 am)chipan Wrote: the God human relationship is often compared to a father son relationship in the bible. does a father constantly protect his son from the world? or he teach him how to protect himself?

Then you have no faith and are hypocrites attacking others who honestly admit they have none. 'Ask, and Ye Shall Receive' according to Jesus. If you lock your doors, your cars, buy smoke alarms and take out life insurance you are essentially saying 'I don't trust God with my life'.

Quote:so we're in agreeance that we should keep blessings God has given us and not throw it away.

READ what was just said - aleialoura is not agreeing with you but actually asking a question. >.>

Quote:well i'm not concerned with spelling, and it was a stupid metaphor, i have no idea what he's trying to say.

Then why respond to something you didn't understand without asking for clarity and end up making yourself look like an arsehole?

(December 30, 2011 at 12:12 pm)chipan Wrote: i agree with this, but is it also wrong to keep some as you give some away? and don't call Jesus a demigod, he is not a greek myth.

The term 'Demigod' is far too sensible for you and would be wasted. Since you foolishly believe Jesus IS God which causes the whole "sacrificing himself, to himself in order to punish himself for laws and rules he established in the first place" nonsense.

Quote:well i feel sorry for you then. i see God all over in my life and the fact that you don't see it only deprives you from a God filled life.

You see a first-born killing God everywhere, including in your toilet? And you feel sorry for us?

"I didn't say anything about self-harm. Try reading what I posted for a change. As aleialoura pointed out 'What danger is there if the almighty is watching over you? What kind of God won't protect you from harm?'. Obviously a useless god unworthy of worship or reverence."

if we don't protect ourselves, we put ourselves in danger. so just b/c God protects us doesn't mean we should not also protect ourselves.

"Then why respond to something you didn't understand without asking for clarity and end up making yourself look like an arsehole?"

i suppose you're right. my apoligies welsh cake

"You see a first-born killing God everywhere, including in your toilet? And you feel sorry for us?"

don't be literal to the point of stupidy, and God never condones human sacrifice.