(November 7, 2024 at 9:46 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Neither did 16 million people.  They unboarded at the terminal like human beings.  What's the point of even having these discussions if we're not going to limit ourselves to reality?  Is it like with the haitians thing...the ethnically anxious are just going to keep makin shit up until we get how they feel?  The most common way for a person to become an illegal here is to overstay their work visa..the most common way to get in is by plane.

Yes, some did.

Many others - in the millions - crossed over the borders on foot; using a variety of Mexican cartel resources, hostile foreign actors, and dumb luck to try and make their way through desert and mountain.

"Limiting ourselves to reality" should not mean "only acknowledge the bits of it that affirm my belief."

To take just a single month of the surge - December 2023 - over 370,000 individuals were encountered at the border - 12,000 a day. 

For 3 years this went on, and while that was a peak month that still leads to millions of individuals who chose to take this route and are now within our borders without even the most basic of background screening; this was, again, just the *encountered* individuals.


We cannot pretend that millions of individuals - many of whom have been explicitly sent here by states of a variety of hostile governments for who knows' what reason - are not a problem just to avoid offending the sensibilities of people who are still here illegally, like it or not.

(November 7, 2024 at 7:20 pm)MR. Macabre 666 Wrote:

(November 6, 2024 at 11:17 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: At this point I hope he lives out his term. If he dies, we get Vance for who knows how long -- but long enough to cement the destruction of our democracy. I believe that this will be the last free and fair election I'll see in my lifetime.

Very hyperbolic reaction don't you think? How exactly will "they" destroy our democracy? By closing our open southern border? Or by not paying Ukraine to fight a war with Russia any more? Or by utilizing the natural resources  we have here in the US? 

Apparently TDS is very real, and seems to have infected most of the members of this forum.

Do you not follow the news? SCOTUS has already decided that in the course of his official duties a President may disregard the law without fear of being held to account.

You can call "TDS" on summons, but I'm pretty good with taking a man at his word. He's already said he will be a dictator on Day One. He's already told Christians that they will not need to vote again. This has nothing to do with Ukraine or immigrants. He has already announced that he will attack our Constitution.

Unlike you, I swore my life to defend that Constitution. I've read it and I know it -- again, unlike you.

You can use your slurs all you want, but you cannot rebut my points so that's your go-to ... which is typical of Trumpian bullshit artists. You're not even very artistic in it.

You're not talking to a fellow Trumpeteer here, you're talking to thinking people. Get the fuck over it, snowflake. Stop getting outraged or butthurt by contrary opinions already. Or is that "buttraged" or "outhurt"? Hard to say.

(November 7, 2024 at 9:53 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(November 7, 2024 at 9:46 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Neither did 16 million people.  They unboarded at the terminal like human beings.  What's the point of even having these discussions if we're not going to limit ourselves to reality?  Is it like with the haitians thing...the ethnically anxious are just going to keep makin shit up until we get how they feel?  The most common way for a person to become an illegal here is to overstay their work visa..the most common way to get in is by plane.

Yes, some did.

Many others - in the millions - crossed over the borders on foot; using a variety of Mexican cartel resources, hostile foreign actors, and dumb luck to try and make their way through desert and mountain.

"Limiting ourselves to reality" should not mean "only acknowledge the bits of it that affirm my belief."

To take just a single month of the surge - December 2023 - over 370,000 individuals were encountered at the border - 12,000 a day. 

For 3 years this went on, and while that was a peak month that still leads to millions of individuals who chose to take this route and are now within our borders without even the most basic of background screening; this was, again, just the *encountered* individuals.


We cannot pretend that millions of individuals - many of whom have been explicitly sent here by states of a variety of hostile governments for who knows' what reason - are not a problem just to avoid offending the sensibilities of people who are still here illegally, like it or not.

There are seasonal peaks and lulls in border encounters every year.  Sure, plenty of people trying to get into the us in december of 23...and yet it remains a fact that people get here by plane and overstay their work visa....because our border...is not open.  As another poster has pointed out already..if our border were open...we'd have precisely zero illegals in the country. The us border, in mere reality, is one of the most treacherous and tightly guarded borders on earth.

They're people looking for a better life in the us, jesus fucking christ.  You wanna worry about terrorists?  Look at the domestics.  They're real hot right now.

December's a great month to cross a fuckin' desert, wot-wot.

Interesting moniker - the WHITE marten.

But, I digress. I do the payroll for a company who employs a lot of people from Mexico and Central America. Part of my job is to keep up with documentation. We also allow people to return to Mexico (with approved time off) so they may update their paperwork. We have employees who have been with the company for nearly twenty years. They pay taxes....I know because I collect it and send it to the appropriate US departments.

What you hateful types need to do is get it through your thick skulls that there's a big difference between illegal/undocumented immigrants and those who are following the rules.

Once you get that figured out, get out your crayons and puppets and explain it to your fearless leader.

(November 7, 2024 at 10:02 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There are seasonal peaks and lulls in border encounters every year.  Sure, plenty of people trying to get into the us in december of 23...and yet it remains a fact that people get here by plane and overstay their work visa....because our border...is not open.  As another poster has pointed out already..if our border were open...we'd have precisely zero illegals in the country.  The us border, in mere reality, is one of the most treacherous and tightly guarded borders on earth.  

They're people looking for a better life in the us, jesus fucking christ.  You wanna worry about terrorists?  Look at the domestics.  They're real hot right now.

I understand there are lulls; hence the reason I mentioned that was the peak of a 3 year surge; i.e. a period of time in which average immigrants encountered at the border are significantly above the expected numbers you would see - peaks and lulls included.

Even if it isn't, by your own metric of peaks and lulls that is still at least a million individuals *encountered* and to call it amongst the most tightly guarded borders in history is to directly contradict the opinions of our trained law enforcement who actively deal with the situation every day.

Being pedantic over the phrase "open border" is strange and I was going to let that one slide. The border is open in the non-political sense of the word and rather in the more colloquial transitive state; as if you were using the word "open" to describe a goal on the ice when the goalie has been knocked aside.  

Some are, and they should be allowed to come here legally and through an improved system. 

Domestic terrorists primarily come from the left, and thankfully their party has just been removed from party in at least 2 of the 3 branches of government so we should hopefully stop seeing a focus on non-threatens (putting spies in Catholic Churches) and focus on the mentally ill, the racial supremacists, and the political radicals who have done billions of dollars of damage to America over the last few years.

That said it seems they are still using the current chaos to harass Jews in Chicago; I'm wondering how long it will take before they start burning down cities while they can still get away with  it.

(November 7, 2024 at 10:23 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: Domestic terrorists primarily come from the left [...]

This is factually incorrect, in America.