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Unity Through Faith?
#1
Unity Through Faith?
This is about a very interesting interview I saw on France 24 yesterday. There was this İranian woman reporting on the current situation in Iran.
 
As you may know the Iranian economy is finished. The IRI is unable to run the economy based on the war and defense industry as they do in Russia. Even if it did, Iran is not even a capitalist country. Anything of value that was private property before the revolution of 1979 belongs to the Basiji now. There are food subsidies etc. to help ordinary people. But this is not enough. People who are protesting are mainly doing so because they are unable to make a living. Not because of ideological reason.
 
So there was this Iranian-French woman on TV who was telling us how Iranian women went to Dubai etc. just to become prostitutes and be able to send money to their families. These are educated young women, who are in a very good position to satisfy the needs of Qatari men looking for casual sex.
 
In fact Gulf countries were the ones who have benefited the most from the regime change in Iran. Many companies are said to have left the country for places like Kuwait. All the educated Iranians have also fled to Europe and North America. So all these countries could hire these doctors, engineers etc. who could not live in their own country anymore. On the other hand, China is currently buying Iranian oil and reselling it to Europe. So basically everyone is happy except the ordinary Iranians who now have “Islam” thus they have everything Sad
 
We already know about the imperialist endeavors of the west in the whole region. Even the Israelis are happy because they don’t know that it’s impossible to live in a place without some level of good relations with your neighbors.
 
But what I want to point out is how much the Arab hate their Indo-European neighbors in the North. These political İslamist could not have thrown down the Shah without some amount of Arab, Israeli and Western supports.
 
A good reference to this is Sasha Cohen’s movie called “The dictator”. So these people hate the West and Israel. That much we know. But they also hate one another greatly (think of the conflict between Saudi Arabia and Houthi rebels). They also do not really care about Palestinians who they don’t see as real Arabs. They hate us (Turks) and the current AK Party government depends greatly on financial support from the U.A.E. etc. 
 
They also do not like themselves (I’m talking about their own female citizens).
 
See what this SOB does to those women in the shop:




 

This is all reminding me of what Europe was like before the 18th century. I’m not a great expert. But the Spanish King trying to invade England (at the time of Queen Elizabeth II), the inquisition and witch hunts (during which 10’s of thousands of women were executed and tortured), the war between protestants and Catholics (that did not end in north Ireland until the end of the 20th century), the tensions between Eastern and Western Churches that resulted on some of the crusades being diverted toward Byzantine cities…
 
So in 1777 in America and 1789 in France, people opted for a personalized form of religion. Everyone was simply free to believe (or not believe) whatever he / she wanted and that was the end of the story once and for all.
 
There is no unity through religion, not even in the religious way of doing things. In all forms of belief it is our own individual action that leads us to the desired outcome of faith. And there is no “fraternity” or “one nation under God”. The guy who invented this was the Byzantine Emperor Constantine who had remained a pagan until he accepted to be baptized on his deathbed. He simply saw a window of opportunity there and one cannot say that it didn’t work. If allowed the Eastern part of the Roman Empire to survive for another 1000 years after that.
 
Back to the 21st century and Sacha Baron Cohen we can clearly say that there is no such unity or brotherhood of faith. In fact in the 20th century we had this whole range of dictators who were telling their people “Look, it’s either me, or the political Islamists, love me damned! I’m so secular and progressive!”.
 
Having travelled to Egypt, Syria and Lebanon I can tell you right away that this “brotherhood of faith” is a lie. They are all good people, but the reason why General Abdunassır who was a great reformist in Egypt has been unsuccessful despite being a true patriot and believer in modern values was that everyone around him were self-involved thieves who had no other care but to make themselves richer. And this is the story of all the middle-east in the second half of the 20th century. In the 60’s and 70’s many young men who studied in Europe came back to Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. hoping to make something out of their country. Only to find out that “The secret hand” did not want them to make their respective countries anything other than what it already is.
 
So this is a picture of us at the beginning of the new Dwapara Yuga or Aquarian Age. Of course we are going to mend this in some way. But this is the reality as it is now. 

The main idea here: There is no unity through fate. If anyone is talking to you in these terms he/she probably needs something from you.  

Cool
[Image: 7151bc275de2d3d422106a4008215efe.jpg]

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#2
RE: Unity Through Faith?
No unity through faith? I am absolutely stunned at such a shocking revelation!*

Boru

*vdws
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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#3
RE: Unity Through Faith?
(June 29, 2025 at 10:15 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: The main idea here: There is no unity through fate. If anyone is talking to you in these terms he/she probably needs something from you.  

Cool

I assume you meant "faith" instead of "fate," as in your title.

The same is true of Christianity. Most religious people live in their imaginations.

Science, on the other hand, has unified a lot of people across the globe.
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#4
RE: Unity Through Faith?
(June 29, 2025 at 4:58 pm)Alan V Wrote:
(June 29, 2025 at 10:15 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: The main idea here: There is no unity through fate. If anyone is talking to you in these terms he/she probably needs something from you.  

Cool

I assume you meant "faith" instead of "fate," as in your title.

The same is true of Christianity.  Most religious people live in their imaginations.

Science, on the other hand, has unified a lot of people across the globe.

Another chief difference is that people who don’t believe in science still reap the benefits from it.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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#5
RE: Unity Through Faith?
(June 29, 2025 at 6:18 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(June 29, 2025 at 4:58 pm)Alan V Wrote: I assume you meant "faith" instead of "fate," as in your title.

The same is true of Christianity.  Most religious people live in their imaginations.

Science, on the other hand, has unified a lot of people across the globe.

Another chief difference is that people who don’t believe in science still reap the benefits from it.

Boru

But shouldn't...

Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:

"You did WHAT?  With WHO?  WHERE???"
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#6
RE: Unity Through Faith?
(June 29, 2025 at 7:34 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:
(June 29, 2025 at 6:18 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Another chief difference is that people who don’t believe in science still reap the benefits from it.

Boru

But shouldn't...

Absolutely they should. Vaccines, sanitation, clean water, and abundant food shouldn’t be denied to anyone just because they believe in faery stories.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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#7
RE: Unity Through Faith?
Science hasn't united anyone either. But at least it gives us great things like anti-depressants and microwaves.
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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#8
RE: Unity Through Faith?
(June 29, 2025 at 8:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(June 29, 2025 at 7:34 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: But shouldn't...

Absolutely they should. Vaccines, sanitation, clean water, and abundant food shouldn’t be denied to anyone just because they believe in faery stories.

Boru

They can pray for it all on an island somewhere...

Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:

"You did WHAT?  With WHO?  WHERE???"
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#9
RE: Unity Through Faith?
(June 29, 2025 at 10:23 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Science hasn't united anyone either. But at least it gives us great things like anti-depressants and microwaves.

I am surprised this has to be written out, since I consider it rather obvious, but science has united humanity with better methods for:
farming,
medicine, 
mental health,
construction,
transportation,
communication, 
education,
national security,
and tackling emerging problems, like climate change.

Through all of these developments, science has also demonstrated how inadequate cultural traditions have been in developing the same advances.

Further, science has developed a unified and detailed picture of reality based on evidence, which includes:
stellar evolution,
biological evolution,
the standard model,
chemistry,
general relativity,
quantum mechanics,
sociology and psychology,
and even history, especially big history.

In contrast, religious differences remain one of the root causes of disunity in combination with the tribalism of evolutionary psychology.
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#10
RE: Unity Through Faith?
(June 30, 2025 at 5:47 am)Alan V Wrote:
(June 29, 2025 at 10:23 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Science hasn't united anyone either. But at least it gives us great things like anti-depressants and microwaves.

I am surprised this has to be written out, since I consider it rather obvious, but science has united humanity with better methods for:
farming,
medicine, 
mental health,
construction,
transportation,
communication, 
education,
national security,
and tackling emerging problems, like climate change.

Through all of these developments, science has also demonstrated how inadequate cultural traditions have been in developing the same advances.

Further, science has developed a unified and detailed picture of reality based on evidence, which includes:
stellar evolution,
biological evolution,
the standard model,
chemistry,
general relativity,
quantum mechanics,
sociology and psychology,
and even history, especially big history.

In contrast, religious differences remain one of the root causes of disunity in combination with the tribalism of evolutionary psychology.

With all due respect, I don't really understand how any of that stuff has united people.
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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