(9 hours ago)Sheldon Wrote:

(11 hours ago)AngelThMan Wrote:  If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong. Do you agree? If not, what objective morality exists?

No I do not agree, and I don't believe any objective moral standard exists either. I can consider rape wrong or immoral without it being objectively true, all I need do is care or empathise about other humans, give it a try. Further more, I do not accept that blindly following rules is morality, even from a deity, assuming you could evidence any deity exists, which is unlikely, or you'd have opened with that.

If rape being wrong is just how you feel, then it follows that it is not objectively evil. It's just your opinion, which no one is required to abide by

Let's be clear he has not established god as objectively moral he has simply asserted it.

(11 hours ago)AngelThMan Wrote:

(11 hours ago)Deesse23 Wrote: Go and educate yourself about what objective morality us, and we can continue the conversation

Just tell what objective moral values anyone is obligated to follow without God.

None, but then that is true of all morality including theistic morality, as it represent a subjective choice. 

FWIW I'd rather people refrained from acts like rape and murder because they can see it would cause unnecessary suffering, than because someone is blindly following some rules from an archaic superstition.

Nor did he provide any real objection to Sheldon's statement

(9 hours ago)Sheldon Wrote:

(11 hours ago)AngelThMan Wrote: Just tell what objective moral values anyone is obligated to follow without God.

None, but then that is true of all morality including theistic morality, as it represent a subjective choice. 

FWIW I'd rather people refrained from acts like rape and murder because they can see it would cause unnecessary suffering, than because someone is blindly following some rules from an archaic superstition.

So it's a matter of preference. You'd rather people don't engage in rape, though it's not an obligation for anyone to abide by your preference. So from your answer it follows that rape is not inherently evil. So my original premise is correct: Without God, nothing is right or wrong or evil

(10 hours ago)AngelThMan Wrote:

(10 hours ago)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: First, tell me why you think moral values are objective. If you like, you can answer by example - what acts are ALWAYS moral or immoral, that kind of thing.

Boru

That's a really dumb question. Why would moral values or any values be inherently objective? The question is, can they be objective? So you agree under atheism there are no objective moral values?

On the contrary the question was entirely apropos, as it highlights the assumption in your question which renders it meaningless. 

You could change the word god to mermaid in your question and it loses nothing.

I like how he thinks his argument holds up when it's just an assertion ....lol

When gets around to demonstrating the supposed objectivity of god morality. That isn't simply a pile of assertions on top of assertions he should tell us.

(10 hours ago)AngelThMan Wrote:

(10 hours ago)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: First, tell me why you think moral values are objective. If you like, you can answer by example - what acts are ALWAYS moral or immoral, that kind of thing.

Boru

That's a really dumb question. Why would moral values or any values be inherently objective? The question is, can they be objective? So you agree under atheism there are no objective moral values?

That's a really clumsy evasion.

I seem to recall that you said answering a question with a question is a fallacy.

But, yes...I agree that there are no objective moral values, full stop.

Boru

(9 hours ago)AngelThMan Wrote:

(9 hours ago)Sheldon Wrote: None, but then that is true of all morality including theistic morality, as it represent a subjective choice. 

FWIW I'd rather people refrained from acts like rape and murder because they can see it would cause unnecessary suffering, than because someone is blindly following some rules from an archaic superstition.

So it's a matter of preference. You'd rather people don't engage in rape, though it's not an obligation for anyone to abide by your preference. So from your answer it follows that rape is not inherently evil. So my original premise is correct: Without God, nothing is right or wrong or evil

Under God, rape is not inherently evil, since (according to scripture), God endorses rape.

Boru

(9 hours ago)AngelThMan Wrote:

(10 hours ago)Sheldon Wrote: I don't accept the premise of your question, as was clear when I answered it above, which you haven't bothered to read. Your question is meaningless unless you can demonstrate that a deity exists and has provided objective morality. You don't get to dictate how anyone responds to the unevidenced assumption in your question. As was explained previously, asking you to justify the unevidenced assumption in your loaded question is not a fallacy. 

The word god in your question is moot.

Without God, there are no moral obligations. There is no standard anyone is required to follow. So as long as a serial rapist gets away with it, like Jimmy Seville, there's no obligation unless there's an objective standard, which there is with God. That's my argument. Now address my argument and stop deflecting. Is there an objectively moral obligation under atheism?

I don't believe there is any objective morality at all, whether a deity exist or not, can I make that any clearer for you? Why do you keep repeating the question ad nauseam, even after it has been answered?