Posts: 69196
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 2:19 pm
(This post was last modified: Yesterday at 2:25 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Maybe, or maybe it’s just a cultural disconnect. Here’s a fun one.
Is god a moral realist? Or is god a moral subjectivist? Fine fine fine, we think god is the greatest knower of things…so what does that guy say? Is there something really wrong with x or is it more like x is wrong for him? When god says “do f do that, it’s bad” is the thing actually bad or does he mean that it will turn out poorly for him, or that he personally doesn’t like that outcome? Is being an atheist bad? When god says we should believe in him does he mean that believing in god is a good thing or that bad things will happen to us if we don’t?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 217
Threads: 3
Joined: March 9, 2010
Reputation:
3
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 2:32 pm
(Yesterday at 1:59 pm)Sheldon Wrote: (Yesterday at 1:51 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Great. You can answer questions. Now tell me by what standard. What standard are you appealing to to say murder is evil in a universe with no deity The same as I would in a universe with no mermaids. Agreed. But you did day there IS evil in a world without deities or mermaids. So what standard are you invoking to say murder is evil?
Posts: 1311
Threads: 0
Joined: July 8, 2024
Reputation:
9
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 2:32 pm
(This post was last modified: Yesterday at 2:33 pm by Sheldon.)
(Yesterday at 2:19 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Maybe, or maybe it’s just a cultural disconnect. Here’s a fun one.
Is god a moral realist? Or is god a moral subjectivist? Fine fine fine, we think god is the greatest knower of things…so what does that guy say? Is there something really wrong with x or is it more like x is wrong for him? When god says “do f do that, it’s bad” is the thing actually bad or does he mean that it will turn out poorly for him, or that he personally doesn’t like that outcome? Is being an atheist bad? When god says we should believe in him does he mean that believing in god is a good thing or that bad things will happen to us if we don’t? All very interesting and salient questions, lets run a sweep on how many he answers.
"Is god a moral realist? Or is god a moral subjectivist?"
I can't wait for him to call that a red herring change of topic, and without a hint of irony.
Posts: 217
Threads: 3
Joined: March 9, 2010
Reputation:
3
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 2:34 pm
(Yesterday at 2:16 pm)Sheldon Wrote: (Yesterday at 1:56 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Have not addressed my original question. Here it is again. If you say you have already answered, you're stinking liar and I will not reply.
Is anything evil in a world with no deity? LIAR liar pants on fire... 
We're done. Let it be known you couldn't answer what standard you go by to say anything is evil.
Posts: 69196
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 2:36 pm
(This post was last modified: Yesterday at 2:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
A lot of people, atheists and theists alike….across time and cultures, have used something like a help/harm standard.
As in- don’t harm, do help. In that order most of the time, too. As in we always have an obligation to minimize harm but we don’t always have an obligation to help. Or that succeeding at harm is worse than failing to help.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1311
Threads: 0
Joined: July 8, 2024
Reputation:
9
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 2:46 pm
(This post was last modified: Yesterday at 2:59 pm by Sheldon.)
(Yesterday at 2:34 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: (Yesterday at 2:16 pm)Sheldon Wrote: LIAR liar pants on fire... 
We're done. Let it be known you couldn't answer what standard you go by to say anything is evil. LIAR liar pants on fire...
Who knows what you hope to gain from such a clumsy lie? Just click on the link folks, my answer to his question emboldened above is number 6)...
And please note he changed the question and lied twice there, and both links show unequivocally that I have answered both questions.
Now....since he has not and has no intention of answering, here is my question:
If there's a God, nothing is objectively right or wrong or evil.
Do you agree?
Posts: 1311
Threads: 0
Joined: July 8, 2024
Reputation:
9
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 2:52 pm
(Yesterday at 2:36 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: A lot of people, atheists and theists alike….across time and cultures, have used something like a help/harm standard.
As in- don’t harm, do help. In that order most of the time, too. As in we always have an obligation to minimize harm but we don’t always have an obligation to help. Or that succeeding at harm is worse than failing to help. It's likely this would have its origins in our early evolution, I mean instincts or the ability to understand that limiting harm among animals that were evolving to live in societal groups has a survival advantage.
Posts: 1311
Threads: 0
Joined: July 8, 2024
Reputation:
9
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 3:03 pm
(Yesterday at 2:32 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: (Yesterday at 1:59 pm)Sheldon Wrote: The same as I would in a universe with no mermaids. Agreed. But you did day there IS evil in a world without deities or mermaids. So what standard are you invoking to say murder is evil? Same answer as before, and same as everyone else, my own reason. Now go ahead and lie again that I haven't answered.
Posts: 12131
Threads: 30
Joined: December 8, 2019
Reputation:
14
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 3:05 pm
(Yesterday at 2:34 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: (Yesterday at 2:16 pm)Sheldon Wrote: LIAR liar pants on fire... 
We're done. Let it be known you couldn't answer what standard you go by to say anything is evil. Liar
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
Posts: 8645
Threads: 40
Joined: March 18, 2014
Reputation:
54
RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 3:18 pm
(Yesterday at 5:16 am)AngelThMan Wrote: (Yesterday at 5:07 am)Sheldon Wrote: I don't accept the premise of your question, as was clear when I answered it above, which you haven't bothered to read. Your question is meaningless unless you can demonstrate that a deity exists and has provided objective morality. You don't get to dictate how anyone responds to the unevidenced assumption in your question. As was explained previously, asking you to justify the unevidenced assumption in your loaded question is not a fallacy.
The word god in your question is moot.
Without God, there are no moral obligations. There is no standard anyone is required to follow. So as long as a serial rapist gets away with it, like Jimmy Seville, there's no obligation unless there's an objective standard, which there is with God. That's my argument. Now address my argument and stop deflecting. Is there an objectively moral obligation under atheism?
Your argument fails at it's first premise. There are any number of moral and ethical obligations that come from society, no gawds required. You were sold a bill of goods by your local shaman and you bought without thinking. Of course, from your "arguments," you seem to do a lot of not thinking.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
|