And thats a plain old truck load of horseshit, starting:

Quote:1. Atheists can't truly prove that there is no spiritual or magical essence to reality.

You cant prove I don't have an udetectable friend that makes fish turn to bacon, nanner, nanner. Seriously, are you this stupid?

I thought this said 'A Non-Violet Solution' when I clicked the thread.

Funny how easy it is to miss that 'N'

(February 14, 2012 at 2:09 pm)LastPoet Wrote: And thats a plain old truck load of horseshit, starting:

Quote:1. Atheists can't truly prove that there is no spiritual or magical essence to reality.

You cant prove I don't have an udetectable friend that makes fish turn to bacon, nanner, nanner. Seriously, are you this stupid?

What you might think you can prove is basically irrelevant.

The bottom line is that the jealous God religions are under attack (and rightfully so). But the people who are attacking them are refusing to offer the believes a 'safety net'.

Think of it as a hotel that's on fire.

Inside are believers in spiritual ideals.

Outsides are non-believers who are telling the people inside to "jump" out of the hotel. But they aren't offering any safety nets. They are asking the occupants of the hotel to jump into the 'black hole' or atheism.

So the believers have two choices. They can either stand their ground and go up in glorious flames believing that they are honoring their jealous Gods. Or they can jump into the meaningless 'black hole' of atheism.

Standing their ground seems like the better choice. The 'black hole' of atheism is CERTAIN DOOM.

All I'm saying is that if you change this scenario and offer "safety nets of alternative spiritual views", then a LOT of people who are in these burning hotels with abandon their jealous God doctrines and jump into one of these alternative spiritual safety nets.

But if you think that you can "prove" to these people that the 'black hole' of atheism is the only possibly choice, then you are the one who is mistaken.

They are never going to trade-in their jealous-God doctrines for the certain meaningless fate of jumping into a black hole.

That is never going to happen.

It's truly unrealistic to even expect them to make that choice.

Can I have the number for your weed dealer?

(February 14, 2012 at 2:27 pm)Abracadabra Wrote:

(February 14, 2012 at 2:09 pm)LastPoet Wrote: And thats a plain old truck load of horseshit, starting:

Quote:1. Atheists can't truly prove that there is no spiritual or magical essence to reality.

You cant prove I don't have an udetectable friend that makes fish turn to bacon, nanner, nanner. Seriously, are you this stupid?

What you might think you can prove is basically irrelevant.

The bottom line is that the jealous God religions are under attack (and rightfully so). But the people who are attacking them are refusing to offer the believes a 'safety net'.

Think of it as a hotel that's on fire.

Inside are believers in spiritual ideals.

Outsides are non-believers who are telling the people inside to "jump" out of the hotel. But they aren't offering any safety nets. They are asking the occupants of the hotel to jump into the 'black hole' or atheism.

So the believers have two choices. They can either stand their ground and go up in glorious flames believing that they are honoring their jealous Gods. Or they can jump into the meaningless 'black hole' of atheism.

Standing their ground seems like the better choice. The 'black hole' of atheism is CERTAIN DOOM.

All I'm saying is that if you change this scenario and offer "safety nets of alternative spiritual views", then a LOT of people who are in these burning hotels with abandon their jealous God doctrines and jump into one of these alternative spiritual safety nets.

But if you think that you can "prove" to these people that the 'black hole' of atheism is the only possibly choice, then you are the one who is mistaken.

They are never going to trade-in their jealous-God doctrines for the certain meaningless fate of jumping into a black hole.

That is never going to happen.

It's truly unrealistic to even expect them to make that choice.

Why would another lie be a "safety net"? And why would stark, naked truth be certain doom?

(February 14, 2012 at 2:29 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Can I have the number for your weed dealer?

Think about it.

Even secular scientists think of black holes as being the most disturbing objects in the universe. Fall into a black hole and not only can you never escape, but even the atoms, matter, and energy that make up your body can never escape.

Many scientists have found this extremely disturbing.

Yet this is what pure secular atheists proclaim about death. They proclaim that dying is like a black hole. It's a one-way ticket that leads to permanent non-existence.

And then they wonder why people find this "disturbing"?

Abra Wrote:Even secular scientists think of black holes as being the most disturbing objects in the universe. Fall into a black hole and not only can you never escape, but even the atoms, matter, and energy that make up your body can never escape.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19649_6-m...ovies.html

I don't find it any more disturbing than the sun.

(February 14, 2012 at 2:36 pm)genkaus Wrote: Why would another lie be a "safety net"? And why would stark, naked truth be certain doom?

It doesn't need to be a "lie" at all.

I'm not suggesting that these other spiritual ideas need to be supported as having 'evidence' for being true.

All I'm saying is that they can't be disproved. And that, my friend, is not a lie.

The jealous God religions can be disproved via the very contradictions that are blatantly apparent within the fables themselves. You don't even need science to prove that the Abrahamic myths are false.

You ask, "Why would start, naked truth be certain doom?".

Well, if you're referring to what pure secular atheists believe to be true, then how could it be anything other than certain doom? That's precisely what a secular atheist is selling.

To simply cease to exist when your body dies is "Certain Doom"

Perhaps you don't realize this, but that is precisely what pure secular atheism amounts to,... CERTAIN DOOM.

Quote:Giving them a third option of continuing to believe in spirituality without relying upon jealous-God doctrines will give them an alternative choice that a lot of spiritual-minded people would jump at.

In some places that "option" can get them killed. We've had enough muslims show up here who cannot let it be known that they don't believe in the whole mohammed (FHUTA) routine.

Religion is the terror of the ignorant, my friend. The jews have this vision that they are god's "chosen people." What exactly has that ever gotten them? Hitler was simply the latest example of them being rounded up and murdered. European history is littered with such events. For being's such favorites of "god" they were repeatedly overrun by every power that rolled through the region and then, after 3 revolts, the Romans finally threw their asses out.
Why didn't "god" help them? Well, religion has an answer for that. It was THEIR OWN FUCKING FAULT. Somehow they did something that pissed off their holy sky-daddy so he said "FUCK YOU - GO ROME!" And the assholes believed it.

The Arabs were oppressed by waves of conquerors and in all that time fucking allah did exactly jack shit for them. Yet the morons still believe.

You are talking about overcoming a wall of stupidity which is high and thick.