(March 13, 2012 at 12:31 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Communist...or socialist, or liberal, or anarchist.

Yeah, I understand what he is trying to do...but it is WAY to simplified and one dimensional.

When i read George Orwell's "Homage to catalonia", he would occasionally call certain people on the Republic side as "right wingers", but they were NOT fascists.

To Catalonia, which was almost completely socialist during its civil war, when some said "right wing" they didnt mean a capatalist. They meant a totalitarian socialist. The soviets were "right wing" to Orwell. Orwell was a Democratic Socialist at the time. He spoke highly of the Anarchists and other "left wingers". In this case, he was meaning anti-authoritatians.

Fascists, on the other hand, compared to Orwell's Catalonia, would be a double right wing. Authoritarian and capitalist.

A person such as you, Tiberius, could easily assume capitalism in this same sense (which is typically considered right wing) is the norm, and therefore right or left is merely the difference between authoritarian and anti-auth. Fascist or Libertarianism. I understand you are more on the left of that, or maybe a bit to the center.

Either way. Just breaking politics into a single dimension never really works. I wouldnt mind the title (communist) if I wasnt aware that most people think "SOVIET" when they say it. Big difference. You can have left and right wing communism, and George Orwell clearly stated he was left of center about it. I tend to agree with his view.

(March 13, 2012 at 2:54 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Yeah, I understand what he is trying to do...but it is WAY to simplified and one dimensional.

Agreed.

Due to the possible poll answers, you and I would both have to answer "Left".

However, that wouldn't really tell anyone anything at all - our political views are likely different in at as many ways as they are alike, and I suspect that if I gave you a full inventory of my political views, you wouldn't describe me as a leftist at all (neither would I, actually).

(March 13, 2012 at 1:39 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Sooo, long story short, it's not a turkish word, and fascists absolutely hate the idea of other fascists being in control of anything. Besides, they weren't turkish ethnocentrists. You think you've broadened my view of the subject matter? Also, on the end of it, someday you're probably going to kill us -politely-, and because of that we should be fearful. I get it.

I do completely agree with you though, your views are a form of "centrism"...see above.

It is indeed as you said it.
Ethnocentrism. But then again, who in the *normal* world, which is the one on the eastern side of the atlantic, isn't?
Look at Belgium. Look at Spain. Look at Yugoslavia. Everyone is there for their own kind. At the end of the day, I tell you this, I judge everyone fairly, even if they're not of my own kind.
I do not discriminate when it comes to justice. If I see, that you're intentionally nibbling at the foundations of this noble enterprise, I'll see to it that the hands that reach out for the peace of my people are broken.

Besides, I don't know where you got the idea that we're going to kill you?
Do you think that your nation might be doing things that would incur our wrath? Well, as every nation, we do not agression. In the words of our country's founder, "War, unless absolutely necessary, is murder."
Who are the murderers and killers here, my friend? And who is the warmongerer?

(March 13, 2012 at 3:09 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(March 13, 2012 at 2:54 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Yeah, I understand what he is trying to do...but it is WAY to simplified and one dimensional.

Agreed.

Due to the possible poll answers, you and I would both have to answer "Left".

However, that wouldn't really tell anyone anything at all - our political views are likely different in at as many ways as they are alike, and I suspect that if I gave you a full inventory of my political views, you wouldn't describe me as a leftist at all (neither would I, actually).

I hear ya man. Sometimes I dont mind the single "left/right" system. I know it doesnt work for everyone, but it kind of works for me. Im left on "all of the above", LOL

Social = Left
Economic = Left
anti-authoritarian (which is considered left)


So I can honestly say I am a leftist. But not everyone on the left can do the same.

I consider myself a leftist, at least in principle, but after Obama bungled everything in the past four years, I just hope that a zombie apocalypse rises up.

If you think Obama is a leftist, you're a nut. Russ Feingold is a leftist(by US standards), Obama is centre-right.

(March 13, 2012 at 4:56 pm)5thHorseman Wrote: If you think Obama is a leftist, you're a nut. Russ Feingold is a leftist(by US standards), Obama is centre-right.

He and the Dems may not be leftists by most standards, but, tell me, is there anything further to the left that might actually stand a chance of getting elected?

Besides, everyone knows that, in America, all you need to be considered a socialist is to be a few angstroms to the left of this guy:

Were is the "I hate politics" choice?

'He and the Dems may not be leftists by most standards, but, tell me, is there anything further to the left that might actually stand a chance of getting elected? '

Yes, suprisingly they majority of Americans polled identify as progressives(Young turks polls). A progressive with balls who attacks republitards would win. Unfortunately Demotards have forgotten what left is and are now right and there is no other option in a 'democratic' two party state. If they went back to how they were and had a backbone to match the retardicans, theyd win. Although multinationals run the shop, people do the voting. A progressive who creates/promises jobs and keeps medicare and social security(of which about 5% of population want to get rid of!) and higher taxes on the wealthiest, would win. But they wouldnt get any ad time through lack of corporate donations

How exactly did the Young Turks do that polling? Do you have a link to the method / raw data? I'm skeptical when any organisation (progressive or not) comes out with poll data that tends to show a majority share their ideals. Would be nice to see what questions were asked, how they define "progressive" (i.e. is it just on specific issues, or did these people call themselves progressive across the board).