I just bombard them with questions. I question their answers to the questions. Sometimes people don't need the answers, they just need the questions.

(March 17, 2012 at 5:53 am)Eyem4Christ Wrote: I think it's like a black belt that refuses to fight with anything but white belts. There are all kinds of religious people, some smart, some dumb. It sounds to me like you're not engaging the smart ones. Maybe you should try moving up in class and see how the "ass-kicking contest" goes.

Umm. Not sure where you found that in what he said..

And why shouldn't he question peoples beliefs. People are more than happy to question ours. If people don't know shit about their own religion its their fault not anybody else.

I thought this wanking twerp had left us??

(March 16, 2012 at 6:41 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: This is going to be a quick post (what? ME? QUICK?! AND CONCISE?!! Truly I MUST be tired...), but...

Has anyone ever found themselves in the middle of a debate with a religious individual and almost instantly found themselves feeling...well...GUILTY? I find this happens all the damn time. I have all these wonderful points that could pulp their beliefs and turn them into sobbing wrecks, clutching at the tattered remains of their faith, but...I feel guilty because...this'll sound condescending... But I honestly lose my nerve, not because I fear defeat...but because I fear total victory. I feel guilty. GUILTY. As I thought about it, it's the exact same guilt I might feel if I were to get into a heated argument about the theory of relativity with a retard. I feel guilty arguing with such people because I realize they're such primitive-minded people that to corner them on every single point with rationality would be like getting into an ass-kicking contest with a one-legged man.

That and it also doesn't help that they are exceedingly exasperating when they more-often-than-not refuse to argue within the bounds of reason...

I know exactly what you mean! I still haven't told any of my Christian friends that I don't believe in God because I know my reason will challenge them to the point that it challenged me, which made me de-convert.

I feel like I can't breathe from not being able to have a good discussion about religion with them.. because it's so blatantly obvious that there's no truth in it whatsoever.

I usually just keep at them for the same three things

1) They have no proof of anything their religion takes to be true (god, heaven, hell, miracles, sin, etc) Never mind that the entire thing reads like a fairy tale that noone who was either indoctrinated as a child or needed it so bad they could turn off their brain would believe.

2)Science has furnished us with perfectly good theories on where life came from (the last big gap being what caused the big bang but tell them it is more brave to admit you don't know)

3)Every argument they have is based on assertion. They assert that god exists and then use it as a premise in every one of their arguments. Demonstrate that it is an assertion.

I try to remember that I am not neccesarily going to de-convert anyone but at least I can make it so that the beliefs look unjustified. The more that happens the less dominant they will become in society. I have never felt guilty.

Sometimes, although I hate to say it, I find myself feeling utter contempt for the person I am discussing with. That their views are so unfounded and obviously invented that I get mad that they are so forcefully resisting logic, evidence, and common sense.

See, the point I think we've all come to here is that we shouldn't feel guilty, yet so many of us do. Is it because we are happy for them? "Ignorance is bliss" and all that? Do we remember those times of being deluded fondly?

...I sure don't! I look on those times and think "oh wow I can't believe I actually bought all that crap..."

To be honest, I've debated with some people who would be considered black-belts. The problem is that they are so sure of their beliefs that they begin to refuse to argue in the realms of reason. Discussions between me and such individuals lapses from a discussion about carbon dating, the dinosaurs, matter-vs-anti-matter, and the "god-gap" (the system of "I don't understand it; must be [the] god[s]!) and go into, basically, "if god is all-powerful then your point is moot, he could easily do this that and the other and could easily bend the fabric of reality because he created it!" Nevermind when I point out that just because I can paint a picture, doesn't mean I can remove and change the paint on the canvas at will and that therefore even a creator is not guaranteed absolute manipulation of reality...or that if god can change anything/everything, why doesn't he just kick Satan's ass and get it over with [especially considering just how vengeful and jealous and angry god always seemed to be; but when it comes to satan, man, he suddenly turns into a real pussy]...nevermind when I bring all that up, they flounder with half-baked ideas and begin grasping at straws; the fact it has to devolve into such uncreative, unoriginal, baseless assumptions is proof-positive of the silliness of theism.

I should stop feeling so guilty, I think. I don't wanna be one of those overly loud atheists who wants to cram it into everyone's faces, but I don't want to stay silent, either. I'm worried that mere gentle nudging will do nothing to open someone's mind to the alternatives, though.

It does come to the point of





And walk away... live a good life and hope for the same to those you have left behind.

Normally I don't feel any guilt at all, but once in a while I will find myself speaking with an individual who has devoted their entire life to a specific religion. For example, my father has been a devout christian his entire life. He is the pastor of a church and that is his full time job. I would love to have a down to earth discussion with him, but then I think, what if I succeeded? What if I deconverted him? That would mean he would have to re-evaluate every decision he's ever made, it would mean he would lose every single one of friends, his livelyhood and his job! That makes me feel guilty. Maybe on some very rare occasions ignorance is bliss?

(March 17, 2012 at 7:25 am)aleialoura Wrote: I just bombard them with questions. I question their answers to the questions. Sometimes people don't need the answers, they just need the questions.

Wonderful point! That's what I do with atheists.

Good for you, if you keep asking you might learn something someday....lol. At least you're interrogating credible sources..lol.