(March 19, 2012 at 7:09 am)StatCrux Wrote: Given that the above is the belief of the Church, if it were forced in law to perform same sex marriage (human rights laws invoked from Strasbourg once UK law allows same sex marriage?) this would undermine the institution of marriage and challenge the authority of the Church, I really hope people don't want to try and go down this road, it is going to generate huge conflict. Already some supporters are talking about an "underlying homophobia that needs to be challenged" its the beginning of a secular dictatorship that will make laws to restrict religious freedoms.

Read my post again. None of this is true. Its about allowing churches who accept gay marriage the legal right to conduct religious ceremonies. At no point does it force the more hateful religions to do so against their wishes.

Read up on the amendments yourself and the facts, before overreacting.

Please don't copy paste big chunks either, nobody here cares that your particular brand of religion wrote a big piece of unsubstantiated assertion about it.

(March 19, 2012 at 7:03 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: I'm afraid you've been misled, the new UK proposals are to allow same sex marriage in a place of worship, Quakers and Unitarians want to have same sex marriage in their places of worship but are currently withheld from doing so from the law which prevents "full marriage" in a place of worship.

This is not proposing that a church is forced to do so. Rather the current laws on civil partnership make it illegal to have religious elements to the ceremony including, a civil partnership in a place of worship.

There is an deliberate lie being perpetrated about churches being forced to perform the same sex marriage based on the prejudice of that particular faith. What the new amendment to the Equality Act 2010 proposes is simply that churches that are happy to do so, are allowed by law to do so.
If the church is not happy to do so... they don't have to. That remains unchanged.

You see it as an attack on the church, whereas in reality, it is allowing certain less prejudiced faiths more freedom rather than restriction.

You are demonstrating my point, as I have said, the supporters of this change are saying that it will not be forcing Churches to perform same sex marriages, but this is not how the law funtions in reality, and they know that! Once it is UK law that same sex marriages are allowed in places of worship, they become places offering a service to the population and are open to human rights laws to being imposed on grounds of discrimination, thus forcing any church to perform same sex marriages if requested to do so. That is what is really being pushed. Its divisive and confrotational towards the Church.

Sounds like someone has a "slippery slope fallacy" obsession.

(March 19, 2012 at 7:24 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Sounds like someone has a "slippery slope fallacy" obsession.

Thats can be demonstrated in reality, when pro-gay groups were pushing for civil partnerships, they consistantly maintained that they had no gay marriage agenda, simply a recognition of their partnership and equal rights in law with married couples, it would not be imposed upon or affect any religious institutions. A few years down the line and what's happening? These groups have anti-religious agenda under the guise of equality and human rights issues.

(March 19, 2012 at 7:19 am)StatCrux Wrote: You are demonstrating my point, as I have said, the supporters of this change are saying that it will not be forcing Churches to perform same sex marriages, but this is not how the law funtions in reality, and they know that!

Must be a conspiracy then. Except how come some churches haven't been forced to marry people whom have previously been married.. that's discrimination too. but its against their personal faith so nobody has forced that church to do anything.

So, do you think Quakers and Unitarians should be banned from getting married in their place of worship. Yes or No?

(March 19, 2012 at 7:31 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: So, do you think Quakers and Unitarians should be banned from getting married in their place of worship. Yes or No?

Same sex couples should not be allowed to get married. The churches who want to perform such ceremonies don't overly concern me as this is a symptom of a dying church, the Anglican church for example is in ruins and divided in the UK with very little credibility anymore. The idea of a church with female and gay bishops is laughable, anyone can see that the Anglican church is more concerned about keeping with current secular views than maintaining christian views. You may not agree with the Orthodox and Catholic Church, but at least they remain constant.

(March 19, 2012 at 7:09 am)StatCrux Wrote: Given that the above is the belief of the Church, if it were forced in law to perform same sex marriage (human rights laws invoked from Strasbourg once UK law allows same sex marriage?) this would undermine the institution of marriage and challenge the authority of the Church, I really hope people don't want to try and go down this road, it is going to generate huge conflict. Already some supporters are talking about an "underlying homophobia that needs to be challenged" its the beginning of a secular dictatorship that will make laws to restrict religious freedoms.

Yeah, how dare these people have the same rights as you and me.

Just because they pay the same taxes and are subject to the same laws and responsibilities as everyone else does not mean they should have the same rights as everyone else.

Am I right????

A secular dictatorship that will make laws to restrict religious freedoms to be a bunch of self righteous, sanctimoneous arseholes.

Yeah, I'm cool with that.

(March 19, 2012 at 7:44 am)StatCrux Wrote: Same sex couples should not be allowed to get married. The churches who want to perform such ceremonies don't overly concern me as this is a symptom of a dying church, the Anglican church for example is in ruins and divided in the UK with very little credibility anymore.

So in another words, only your church matters, and everyone should do as YOUR church says. Other churches should be banned from doing things YOUR church disagrees with.

I think we can see the REAL agenda here now... can't you?

(March 19, 2012 at 7:50 am)Zen Badger Wrote: Yeah, how dare these people have the same rights as you and me.

Just because they pay the same taxes and are subject to the same laws and responsibilities as everyone else does not mean they should have the same rights as everyone else.

Am I right????

A secular dictatorship that will make laws to restrict religious freedoms to be a bunch of self righteous, sanctimoneous arseholes.

Yeah, I'm cool with that.

Marriage is not a "right" its a religious sacrament, your argument is the same as saying "all people should have the same right to receive the eucharist, no matter what they believe or do". Same sex couples have all the same rights in law as married couples, they have civil partnerships.

No marriage is a contract ...and a way of tracking genetic breeding...didn't you know this Statcrux??