(March 19, 2012 at 10:11 am)StatCrux Wrote:

(March 19, 2012 at 9:59 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Statistical data hides the fact that your religion is far more harmful that the stats disclose Stat... so much goes unreported. I Know.

That is simply an assertion.

Yeah right ...that was what my Orthodox Father said


Fuck off Bastard

(March 19, 2012 at 10:11 am)StatCrux Wrote:

(March 19, 2012 at 9:59 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Statistical data hides the fact that your religion is far more harmful that the stats disclose Stat... so much goes unreported. I Know.

That is simply an assertion.

Oh don't give her that, that's the new christian thing to do is to bring up self-assertions. "Oh, I saw jesus in my toast!" "An angel comforted me in the middle of the night!" "I was blind but I could see and I see a beautiful Norse man with long flowing hair who promised me salvation and healing!"

Only difference is you need only read psychological evaluations of rape and molestation victims to understand that that shit ain't assertion; it's real.

To get back on topic, I think you're blowing things out of proportion, Stat. It's quite easy for a couple to get married in a different church. Why they'd want to even participate in one that discriminates against them is beyond me. So quit worrying.

(March 19, 2012 at 10:11 am)StatCrux Wrote: That is simply an assertion.

4392 is the figure for the number of priests accused, versus study percentages of possibly 3-9(!)% of possible prevalence for paedophilia in the general population. Not accusations of paedophilia in the general population.

Go to the "accusations" of paedophilia in the general population and accusations in catholicism is 20 to 200 times the norm (estimated, however, that is reallly high). Don't try to be slithery and tricky with the numbers, we're not stupid and we don't fall for little apologetic tricks.
Your best argument would have been that people accuse priests more than other professions, and I might have accepted it a little.

Thread totally derailed.

(March 19, 2012 at 10:09 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Seriously, tell a kid from birth he's a sinner and a bad person and, big shock, he grows up to be a serial killer or a rapist. So...yes, I can say that the evidence fits the statistics.

You seem to be rambling..my initial objection was to your implication that all Catholics/priests are paedophiles. So to clarify, correct me if i'm wrong so we can just wrap this up.

1.You think its perfectly acceptable to accuse a group of people of a crime or imply an involvement if any of their members commit that crime. That is perfectly logical thinking to you?

2.Are you trying to say that atheists are somehow morally superior/better people? as shown by prison statistics?

(March 19, 2012 at 10:21 am)StatCrux Wrote: 1.You think its perfectly acceptable to accuse a group of people of a crime or imply an involvement if any of their members commit that crime. That is perfectly logical thinking to you?

No, that would be unfair. No questions. Accuse a group who wants to tell you how to be moral, of their hypocrisy in higher than average immoral behaviour.. pretty fair.

Quote:2.Are you trying to say that atheists are somehow morally superior/better people? as shown by prison statistics?

Not as such, rather that the religious are NOT morally superior or better people on the basis of their absolute moral authority. Atheists cannot show correlation as we make no claim on moral authority.

What this comes down to.. is if you declare homosexuality as immoral, you have to hold yourself to a moral standard which is not being upheld, and worse, transgressions actively hidden.

(March 19, 2012 at 10:17 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: To get back on topic, I think you're blowing things out of proportion, Stat. It's quite easy for a couple to get married in a different church. Why they'd want to even participate in one that discriminates against them is beyond me. So quit worrying.

Its not just the marriage issue though, there is a worrying upsurge in intolerance. Its a growing body of fanatical secularists who want laws that restrict religious freedom. I always observe in religious or political arguments that the two opposing sides when at the extreme are berely distinguishable in their demeanor or behavior (right wing extremists/left wing extremists etc) People being told they cannot wear a crucifix, women being told they cannot wear a veil. Its this form of intolerance towards religion being manifested in law that is worrying and also curtails personal choice and freedom. Governments should stay out of moral choices and govern to keep the place safe and prosperous, they are not moral arbiters

(March 19, 2012 at 10:21 am)StatCrux Wrote:

(March 19, 2012 at 10:09 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Seriously, tell a kid from birth he's a sinner and a bad person and, big shock, he grows up to be a serial killer or a rapist. So...yes, I can say that the evidence fits the statistics.

You seem to be rambling..my initial objection was to your implication that all Catholics/priests are paedophiles. So to clarify, correct me if i'm wrong so we can just wrap this up.

1.You think its perfectly acceptable to accuse a group of people of a crime or imply an involvement if any of their members commit that crime. That is perfectly logical thinking to you?

2.Are you trying to say that atheists are somehow morally superior/better people? as shown by prison statistics?

Rambling is something I do. I see possibilities for other avenues of related discussion and I will open them. Better to be debate in-depth than just to scratch the surface...after all, nothing is so simple. But yes, to wrap this:

1: When did I say I would specifically imply involvement of other individuals in the crime of another? I did not. I stated, rather, that Christians are the ones who tend to do it more often, yet are the ones who claim themselves the moral paragons. Did nobody else see that??

2: Yes. By prison statistics and arrest rates, compared with or independent of population densities and consensus. I know, you're a theist; cold logic is scary and something you must outright deny to the last breath, but even you can't deny the numbers don't lie.

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(March 19, 2012 at 10:32 am)StatCrux Wrote: Governments should stay out of moral choices and govern to keep the place safe and prosperous, they are not moral arbiters

Uh. Law enforcement. Law and "morals" kind of go hand-in-hand.

Fuck this nonsense of "conspiracy", what this all boils down to is that you are simply homophobic StatCrux.

Speaking as an asexual, you don't want gay couples having the same equality, rights and privileges as other people in society do. You've made this much apparent.

You may return to your untenable defence of the sexual abuse of countless minors by the Church and its clergy.

...

Fucking Catholics.

(March 19, 2012 at 10:28 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote:

(March 19, 2012 at 10:21 am)StatCrux Wrote: 1.You think its perfectly acceptable to accuse a group of people of a crime or imply an involvement if any of their members commit that crime. That is perfectly logical thinking to you?

No, that would be unfair. No questions. Accuse a group who wants to tell you how to be moral, of their hypocrisy in higher than average immoral behaviour.. pretty fair.

Quote:2.Are you trying to say that atheists are somehow morally superior/better people? as shown by prison statistics?

Not as such, rather that the religious are NOT morally superior or better people on the basis of their absolute moral authority. Atheists cannot show correlation as we make no claim on moral authority.

What this comes down to.. is if you declare homosexuality as immoral, you have to hold yourself to a moral standard which is not being upheld, and worse, transgressions actively hidden.

Which all seems perfectly reasonable. Now in context, when discussing same sex marriage is is relevant or appropriate to introduce the issue of paedophilia? Or as I have said, is it a juvenile and ad hominem attack not relevant to the discussion? which was my original point on this subject.