(August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: And no one that I know of is saying there absolutely is no god, what we are saying is there is no validatable evidence for a god (no more evidence than for the thousands of others gods invented, apparently, by mankind or indeed fro the facetious ones invented to ridicule the idea) and as such we will live our lives as if there is none because (in our view) it is stupid to do otherwise. IN essence YOU have to prove the existence of your god BEFORE we will accept it to be so.

It's common knowledge that multiple gods cannot exist together, because "God" is the highest title known to man. How could there be several gods? That's like the United States having several Presidents. The Egyptians worshipped the Sun. We know the Sun is not a god. The Sumerians used to worship the Moon. We know the Moon is not a god. Science has debunked literally every ancient religion that predates Judaism/Christianity/Islam. The reason why these three religions rule the earth is because they cannot be refuted. It's virtually impossible to refute a supernatural deity.

Quote:Rubbish ... you have a book written by a technological primitive people, it is not and never will be a science book. I'll consider accepting that your bible got it right WHEN (and only when) you demonstrate that your bible describes evolution, DNA, the periodic table, cosmology, rocket science, plate tectonics, gravity, geology, oceanography, quantum mechanics and more besides ... and before you go, "ah but... " let me make it plain ... I mean IN DETAIL (all of known science probably equates to several hundred extremely large libraries, your bible is ONE book).

The words, Evolution and rocket science didn't exist 3000 years ago. How do you expect a group of men to mention words that do not exist? Evolution is a modern term for the adaption of the enviroment. As for DNA, I do believe the bible says "there is life within blood".

Quote:And you are INTERPRETING ... what the hell makes YOUR interpretation of your bible right and not mine? You interpret it as everything, I interpret it as an historic source and nothing more. You CANNOT prove you are right!

I'm not here to prove I'm right. I never said that. However, I am showing Bible verses that modern science agrees with.

Quote:The bible is not now and never will be science ... grow up!

I never claimed the bible is a science book. Trust me, if God wanted to mention helium, gravity, energy and geology, he would have done so, but the people of that time era wouldn't have understood him.

"People will run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased" - Daniel 12:4

Quote:So fucking what? I claim I invented the nuclear bomb ... my claim is stronger than your god's ... at least I can be proven to exist!

Well, if you wrote a book 3,000 years ago talking about Nuclear bombs, and 3,000 years later, mankind invents the nuclear bomb, then I would have to take your word for it.

Quote:Then your bible is NOT science ... don't you get it yet? Learn some science!

I know about science. But science does not disprove God in any way. So, when you say, "Learn science", you are giving me the indication that the knowledge from science confirms there is no God. Untrue, and baseless claims.

Quote:If your god said Tyre would never be rebuilt why does it exist now?

The ancient ruins of Tyre are underground. It was never rebuilt, as promised by God. Today "Sur" is on the land where Tyre once stood.

Quote:An ancient being for which there is no fucking validatable evidence ... as far as any objective observer can tell, your god is fiction!

This is false since you cannot prove a universal negative. When you say God is fiction, all you are doing is speaking your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. You can claim God is fiction all day long, but that doesn't mean you're right. That shows that you have an opinion about the existence of God.

"We have no clue what mysterious force moves our constellations" - Albert Einstein

Now, before you get all defensive on me... I'm not claiming Einstein was Christian, but what I can prove is that even the world's most brilliant minds have no idea what mysterious force is beyond our grasp.

(August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm)The_Truth Wrote:

(August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: And no one that I know of is saying there absolutely is no god, what we are saying is there is no validatable evidence for a god (no more evidence than for the thousands of others gods invented, apparently, by mankind or indeed for the facetious ones invented to ridicule the idea) and as such we will live our lives as if there is none because (in our view) it is stupid to do otherwise. IN essence YOU have to prove the existence of your god BEFORE we will accept it to be so.

It's common knowledge that multiple gods cannot exist together, because "God" is the highest title known to man. How could there be several gods? That's like the United States having several Presidents. The Egyptians worshipped the Sun. We know the Sun is not a god. The Sumerians used to worship the Moon. We know the Moon is not a god. Science has debunked literally every ancient religion that predates Judaism/Christianity/Islam. The reason why these three religions rule the earth is because they cannot be refuted. It's virtually impossible to refute a supernatural deity.

Common knowledge eh? Try telling that to the Norsemen, the Aztecs, the Romans, the Greeks, the Indians, the Egyptians (they actually had many gods despite the efforts of one of their pharaohs to unite them under his favourite) as well as quite a number of current day religions.

Actually they can be refuted ... they refute each other both at the major cult level and within themselves as cults and in 1995 something like 15% of the world's population were atheist (non believer). What's that? Near 1 billion people ... that's one helluva lot of people to ignore making a statement like that and beside, you just using the fallacious argument, "argumentum ad populum" (argument from popularity). If 5 billion people believe 2 + 2 was 5 would it be true? If 5 billion people believed the sex of a rabbit was male without actually figuring it out would that affect the outcome when relevant observations were made?

(August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm)The_Truth Wrote:

(August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Rubbish ... you have a book written by a technological primitive people, it is not and never will be a science book. I'll consider accepting that your bible got it right WHEN (and only when) you demonstrate that your bible describes evolution, DNA, the periodic table, cosmology, rocket science, plate tectonics, gravity, geology, oceanography, quantum mechanics and more besides ... and before you go, "ah but... " let me make it plain ... I mean IN DETAIL (all of known science probably equates to several hundred extremely large libraries, your bible is ONE book).

The words, Evolution and rocket science didn't exist 3000 years ago. How do you expect a group of men to mention words that do not exist? Evolution is a modern term for the adaption of the enviroment. As for DNA, I do believe the bible says "there is life within blood".

I DON'T FUCKING CARE!

IF YOUR GOD WANTED TO SPREAD A SCIENTIFIC MESSAGE IN ITS BOOK OF SCRIPTURES IT WOULD HAVE MADE SURE IT WAS DAMNED WELL FUCKING ACCURATE AND ITS PEOPLE COULD FUCKING WELL UNDERSTAND IT BUT IT DIDN'T!

OOPS BIG FUCK UP! IF YOUR GOD IS REAL, IT'S A SERIOUS FUCKING TOSSER!!!!!

(August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm)The_Truth Wrote:

(August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: And you are INTERPRETING ... what the hell makes YOUR interpretation of your bible right and not mine? You interpret it as everything, I interpret it as an historic source and nothing more. You CANNOT prove you are right!

I'm not here to prove I'm right. I never said that. However, I am showing Bible verses that modern science agrees with.

They don't and only a moron would claim the bible is anything much other that a technological primitive culture's view of their universe and their gods!

(August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm)The_Truth Wrote:

(August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: The bible is not now and never will be science ... grow up!

I never claimed the bible is a science book. Trust me, if God wanted to mention helium, gravity, energy and geology, he would have done so, but the people of that time era wouldn't have understood him.

"People will run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased" - Daniel 12:4

You've implied it ... Luke, Luke ... the disingenuousness runs strong in this one!

(August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm)The_Truth Wrote:

(August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: So fucking what? I claim I invented the nuclear bomb ... my claim is stronger than your god's ... at least I can be proven to exist!

Well, if you wrote a book 3,000 years ago talking about Nuclear bombs, and 3,000 years later, mankind invents the nuclear bomb, then I would have to take your word for it.

Don't be an arse ... it wouldn't have gotten written 3000 years ago, the cultures then lacked the relevant technological expertise!

(August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm)The_Truth Wrote:

(August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Then your bible is NOT science ... don't you get it yet? Learn some science!

I know about science. But science does not disprove God in any way. So, when you say, "Learn science", you are giving me the indication that the knowledge from science confirms there is no God. Untrue, and baseless claims.

Science has found no (ZERO, NADA, ZIP) evidence for your god or any other. No currently accepted scientific explanation requests or requires the action of your god or any other. The rational assumption is that any new scientific explanation will be naturalistic and will not refer to the action of your god or any other. That means that the assumption for all scientific explanations is by default naturalistic and that any evidence required to advance an explanation involving your god or any other requires extraordinary evidence ... therefore, whilst I agree that science is currently unable to confirm or deny the existence of your god (or any other), the actual probability is rather more heavily weighted in favour of their not being one than you'd like to pretend.

(August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm)The_Truth Wrote:

(August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: If your god said Tyre would never be rebuilt why does it exist now?

The ancient ruins of Tyre are underground. It was never rebuilt, as promised by God. Today "Sur" is on the land where Tyre once stood.

Wrong, it is still the city of Tyre and is ALSO called Sour, it exists in the same place as the original Tyre and in fact has expanded ... IOW you're talking bollocks (again)!

(August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm)The_Truth Wrote:

(August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: An ancient being for which there is no fucking validatable evidence ... as far as any objective observer can tell, your god is fiction!

This is false since you cannot prove a universal negative. When you say God is fiction, all you are doing is speaking your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. You can claim God is fiction all day long, but that doesn't mean you're right. That shows that you have an opinion about the existence of God.

As you say, it was (quite clearly) my opinion but the fact remains there IS NO VALIDATABLE EVIDENCE FOR YOUR GOD OR ANY OTHER therefore, as far as anyone objective can tell, your god is just plain fiction.

(August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm)The_Truth Wrote: "We have no clue what mysterious force moves our constellations" - Albert Einstein

Now, before you get all defensive on me... I'm not claiming Einstein was Christian, but what I can prove is that even the world's most brilliant minds have no idea what mysterious force is beyond our grasp.

Where EXACTLY, did you get that quote from because it seems to me you think that's significant and so would every other whacko theist? I did a search and I can't even find the fucking quote never mind it being attributed to Einstein.

It looks like the actual quote was (in full), "We see a universe marvellously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand those laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations." Which is a significantly different quote from the version you posted ... more theist disingenuousness I think?

Kyu

According to google:

No results found for "We have no clue what mysterious force moves our constellations".

You douchebag, stop making shit up.

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Quote:The words, Evolution and rocket science didn't exist 3000 years ago. How do you expect a group of men to mention words that do not exist? Evolution is a modern term for the adaption of the enviroment. As for DNA, I do believe the bible says "there is life within blood".

So what, you're imaginary friend should have known everything there ever was to know right? So he's got no excuse for not making this stuff known. As Woody Allen said: "If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever"

Quote:I never claimed the bible is a science book. Trust me, if God wanted to mention helium, gravity, energy and geology, he would have done so, but the people of that time era wouldn't have understood him

Bullshit, you're saying your all powerful being was incapable of conveying this information to his people? Doesn't sound very 'all powerful' to me. Sounds more like primitive sand dwellers wrote a book containing their summation of knowledge, which was comparatively fuck all.

Quote:I know about science. But science does not disprove God in any way. So, when you say, "Learn science", you are giving me the indication that the knowledge from science confirms there is no God. Untrue, and baseless claims.

It can't disprove unicorns, fairies, dragons, the FSM and whatever imaginary being you want to drop into this line either. What it all boils down to is your God (aka Magic Man) is as equally unlikely as anything else in this category and if you think otherwise you're a quack. You need EVIDENCE to distinguish between fact and fiction, and in the case of god none exists, no matter how many concepts you want to attribute to him. Your god is a completely unfounded assumption that you stupidly assert as fact time and time again.

Answer me this question, can you name one single thing that can successfully distinguish your god from nothing?

Quote:This is false since you cannot prove a universal negative. When you say God is fiction, all you are doing is speaking your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. You can claim God is fiction all day long, but that doesn't mean you're right. That shows that you have an opinion about the existence of God.

Really? find me one example of God that exists outside of fiction! Here's a clue: There is fucking nothing! Now what do you think is the more appropriate conclusion? that the unprovable assumption is asserted as truth or that unprovable assumption is ignored until it can be distinguished from nothing?

(August 20, 2009 at 7:56 pm)theVOID Wrote: According to google: No results found for "We have no clue what mysterious force moves our constellations".

We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations." - Albert Einstein http://www.alberteinsteinsite.com/quotes...uotes.html

Quote:You douchebag, stop making shit up.

---

You can apologize now.

Quote:Answer me this question, can you name one single thing that can successfully distinguish your god from nothing?

God is eternal. He has always been, and always will be.

Quote:Really? find me one example of God that exists outside of fiction! Here's a clue: There is fucking nothing! Now what do you think is the more appropriate conclusion? that the unprovable assumption is asserted as truth or that unprovable assumption is ignored until it can be distinguished from nothing?

I can prove God exists outside of the bible. Take a look;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b-dKa6QiOY

Well that's got me converted.

How could I have been wrong all these years? Finally, the creator of the Cosmos with all his omnipotence, omniscience has used his great power to prove to mankind that he exists and his biblical word is true by presenting mankind with a vague, shadowy figure of what some people might consider vaguely resembles a man with a beard, who does nothing and says nothing.

Praise be!!

(August 23, 2009 at 9:04 am)The_Truth Wrote:

(August 20, 2009 at 7:56 pm)theVOID Wrote: According to google: No results found for "We have no clue what mysterious force moves our constellations".

We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations." - Albert Einstein http://www.alberteinsteinsite.com/quotes...uotes.html

PAY ATTENTION MORON! The quote YOU quoted was NOT a quote! It was paraphrased and paraphrased to the point of NOT maintaining the sense of the original, because Einstein did not say "we have no clue" he said "[we] but only dimly understand those laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations." which is, as I said, a significantly different quote from the version you posted!

(August 23, 2009 at 9:04 am)The_Truth Wrote:

Quote:You douchebag, stop making shit up.

---

You can apologize now.

He doesn't have to because YOU GOT IT WRONG ... if you are going to quote someone then quote it CORRECTLY and IN CONTEXT!!!!

(August 23, 2009 at 9:04 am)The_Truth Wrote:

Quote:Answer me this question, can you name one single thing that can successfully distinguish your god from nothing?

God is eternal. He has always been, and always will be.

Which (surprise, surprise) DID NOT answer the question raised by The VOID (and by me on other occasions)!

(August 23, 2009 at 9:04 am)The_Truth Wrote:

Quote:Really? find me one example of God that exists outside of fiction! Here's a clue: There is fucking nothing! Now what do you think is the more appropriate conclusion? that the unprovable assumption is asserted as truth or that unprovable assumption is ignored until it can be distinguished from nothing?

I can prove God exists outside of the bible. Take a look;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b-dKa6QiOY

Yeah, like a YOUTUBE video will answer all our *questions*, solve all our *doubts* ... only Grade A morons reckon they do IMO! Maybe you should try referencing a science periodical?

Kyu

(August 23, 2009 at 9:13 am)Darwinian Wrote: Well that's got me converted.

How could I have been wrong all these years? Finally, the creator of the Cosmos with all his omnipotence, omniscience has used his great power to prove to mankind that he exists and his biblical word is true by presenting mankind with a vague, shadowy figure of what some people might consider vaguely resembles a man with a beard, who does nothing and says nothing.

Praise be!!

That is a vision of Jesus Christ. That vision appeared to the people of Lebanon just a few days before the Lebanon and Israel War back in 2007.

Now, answer me this, What are the odds of a vision of Jesus Christ appearing just a few days before a war between enemies? Incredible.

(August 23, 2009 at 9:04 am)The_Truth Wrote: We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations." - Albert Einstein http://www.alberteinsteinsite.com/quotes...uotes.html

We do now though. What is your point?

Quote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b-dKa6QiOY

Erm...that's a shadow. How exactly does that prove the Bible?

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(August 23, 2009 at 9:18 am)The_Truth Wrote: That is a vision of Jesus Christ. That vision appeared to the people of Lebanon just a few days before the Lebanon and Israel War back in 2007.

Now, answer me this, What are the odds of a vision of Jesus Christ appearing just a few days before a war between enemies? Incredible.

The two events are completely unrelated, so the odds of them occurring close to each other are the same as appearing far away from each other. Unless you can find a connection between the two events, there is nothing to suggest that it is special (statistically) in any way.

(August 23, 2009 at 9:16 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: PAY ATTENTION MORON! The quote YOU quoted was NOT a quote! It was paraphrased and paraphrased to the point of NOT maintaining the sense of the original, because Einstein did not say "we have no clue" he said "[we] but only dimly understand those laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations." which is, as I said, a significantly different quote from the version you posted!

The bottom line is, Einstein didn't know, and neither do you.

Quote:He doesn't have to because YOU GOT IT WRONG ... if you are going to quote someone then quote it CORRECTLY and IN CONTEXT!!!!

Doesn't matter, the point is, the most brilliant scientist in the world didn't know, and neither do you. Can you tell me what mysterious force moves our constellation? Is it God or not?

Quote:Which (surprise, surprise) DID NOT answer the question raised by The VOID (and by me on other occasions)!

It was answered, but it's the answer that atheists don't want to see. They don't want to believe God is eternal.

Quote:Yeah, like a YOUTUBE video will answer all our *questions*, solve all our *doubts* ... only Grade A morons reckon they do IMO! Maybe you should try referencing a science periodical?

If this vision would have appeard 1,500 years ago, you wouldn't believe it unless they had evidence. Well, here's your evidence. A vision of CHRIST appears to the Lebanese, and you can clearly see his mouth is moving. What are the odds of the wind blowing through the trees causing "just" his mouth to move? Incredible.

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(August 23, 2009 at 9:18 am)Tiberius Wrote: We do now though. What is your point?

what mysterious force moves our constellation?

Quote:Erm...that's a shadow. How exactly does that prove the Bible?

It proves Jesus Christ (the same figure in my avatar) appeared in front of people in 2007. What are the odds of the sunlight casting a shadow through the trees to create the perfect image of Christ?

Quote:The two events are completely unrelated, so the odds of them occurring close to each other are the same as appearing far away from each other. Unless you can find a connection between the two events, there is nothing to suggest that it is special (statistically) in any way.

The odds are just too astronomical to measure. The Jewish Messiah appearing to the people of Lebanon before the Israeli and Lebanon war is related. What are the odds of the sunlight casting a shadow through the trees to create this image of Jesus Christ we have painted since the 5th century? Incredible.

Quote:The bottom line is, Einstein didn't know, and neither do you.

Einstein knew infinatally more than you ever will and the fact that he didn't believe in God speaks volumes.

Quote:Can you tell me what mysterious force moves our constellation? Is it God or not?

That would be gravity then.

Quote:It was answered, but it's the answer that atheists don't want to see. They don't want to believe God is eternal.

No, they don't believe there is a god at all, eternal or otherwise.

Quote:What are the odds of the wind blowing through the trees causing "just" his mouth to move? Incredible.

Doesn't matter what the odds are does it. The fact is that a pattern was displayed on a wall and you choose to fill in all the blanks with your delusional imagination.