I'm going to start praying that God causes terrible afflictions for the religious, every time a Christian, Muslim or Jew dies, I WIN!

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(August 29, 2009 at 4:51 am)fr0d0 Wrote: It's a fact that the bible only makes sense when you believe in God. As a skeptical unbeliever how can you accept any of it? It makes perfect sense.

AFIK radio carbon dating can be inaccurate, but that does not discount every other usage.

I wouldn't say the minister was "Lying" but of course your phrase is intended to be emotive. He's wrong IMO and misguided by creationist nonsense. As shocking as you may find this, no one is perfect.

Yes, because you suspend reason and accept something without proof.

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(August 29, 2009 at 6:14 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Well when you believe in God through Jesus you understand that everything in the OT relates to the what Jesus said. So to understand what was said you have to look at it in perspective, and not alone. I know from personal experience that it is impossible to make sense of it out of context, that is, without understanding the whole thing. Everything in the Bible is written for the purpose of understanding God, and nothing else. It's historicity is entirely irrelevant to this point.

The bible is absolutely 100% right on morality. It's the manual for morality. Whatever moral conclusions people arrive at is already in the bible. You can do it the hard way or the easy way .

Christians are doing the opposite to closing their eyes to the facts. Unbelievers can do no other because they're reading with prejudice.

Bullshit:

Slavery is not moral
Genocide is not moral
Infanticide is not moral
Stoning is not moral
Racism is not moral
Sexism is not moral

The Bible is a joke, it took existing morals and ideals and claimed ownership of them, we owe these silly assumptions nothing.

And no, 'unbelievers' do not approach the book with prejudice, they approach it with rationality and a standard of evidence that holy books completely fail to meet.

You can falsely attribute whatever positive messages you want to Christianity but when you, in the same breath, completely ignore all the morally repulsive sections and make claims about morals with no proof to back them up you are doing noting more than blindly asserting your silly stone-age assumptions.

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(August 29, 2009 at 6:33 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Well we (Christians) call it 'inspired'.
If you see contradictions and I don't you conclude either that I am mistaken or that I see it differently than you. The logic is that you will not see it without believing, so you fulfil the logic.

That statement in it's self is illogical, if you can not see it without believing and believing requires a leap of faith despite (or in spite) of all of the empirical evidence available to our species then the simple act of believing is illogical.

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(August 29, 2009 at 6:44 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I don't 'refuse'. I would love to see a successful claim of contradiction but there are none. If you don't believe it won't make sense to you, you fulfil the logic.

1.
God created Adam and Eve at the same time
God created Adam, he did some stuff like naming animals, then he got lonely so God took his rib and made Eve.

2.
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

I could go on and on.... And if you're going to turn around and claim that they exist because man is infallible and messed up or that it's two versions of the same event then your God is more of a bitch that i presently think, the almighty intellect who can't even make sure his special book makes fucking sense!

Or is that what he's been up to the last 200 years? Proofreading?

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(August 29, 2009 at 7:30 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(August 29, 2009 at 7:17 am)Giff Wrote: Fr0d0 wanted some proof of that the bible is contradicting itself. I think thats an easy one:

When Moses got the 10 commandents did it say that shouldn't kill another human. When his people arrived to their destination, what was the first thing they did? Kill all people that lived in that town, including children and women. It says so in the bible.

if that isn't contradicting then I don't know what is.

Shall I just say this isn't a contradiction.

EXPLAIN THIS NONSENSE!

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(August 29, 2009 at 7:55 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Well personally I have never found anything contradictory. There is stuff I don't understand sure and I work that out as time passes. Like how is Christ fully man and fully God at the same time.. although this is post bible thinking rather than inter. There is certainly no requirement to understand everything.

I guess you don't understand life, the universe & everything Darwinian but that doesn't prevent you making assumptions? You trust in your worldview to live your life. You assume the pavement outside your house isn't going to collapse into a hole and walk over it trusting in your belief it's stable. So do I.

Assuming God leads me to live a certain way that plays out in a way consistent to what is written, spoken and lived out by me and other Christians. Assuming not God leads you to conclude that I'm foolish. These are both acceptable worldviews to me, but not to you.

Drop the fucking strawman.

Huge difference:

Our assumptions are based on evidence
No assumptions are asserted as fact until proven conclusively
Our beliefs are intentionally falsifiable
We will change our beliefs if they are proven to be incorrect

Where as your line of thought:

Ancient book is word of God because God said so in Ancient book.

You shouldn't even be allowed to use the word logic.

(August 29, 2009 at 11:52 am)dry land fish Wrote: Oh so if I want to believe a virgin can... blah blah blah regurgitate usual brainless bullshit

You've said all that before DLF and it's as coherent as the rest of your tiny minded crap.

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(August 29, 2009 at 12:52 pm)Saerules Wrote: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/co..._name.html

Hundreds and hundreds of contradictions are listed there, including some very important ones. And an interesting thing from you're own book:
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Also Fr0do, you appear to have what i like to call: the refusal to discuss syndrome. As you refuse to discuss the rather valid points made by your fellow forum posters, one might be inclined to wonder why you respond to them at all, and even begin to be fascinated as to why you are posting here.

Simply, if you do not intend to be rational, in a place where rationality is held with almost sacred ambition: Either begin to be rational, or go somewhere where irrationality is not taken as an offense (or as a proof of immense stupidity).

The skeptics bible contains erm, let me see..... ZERO proof of contradiction. It's a collection of ignorant bullshit for the small minded to use.

I don't refuse to discuss, and I'm entirely rational. You go find me one contradiction that holds water and I'll answer you. This stuff you quote is more than bullshit, and doesn't deserve a response. You gladly demonstrate your own immense stupidity. Go do as you instruct.

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@ DogsArse - go read the forum and learn something.

(August 29, 2009 at 3:50 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(August 29, 2009 at 11:52 am)dry land fish Wrote: Oh so if I want to believe a virgin can... blah blah blah regurgitate usual brainless bullshit

You've said all that before DLF and it's as coherent as the rest of your tiny minded crap.

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(August 29, 2009 at 12:52 pm)Saerules Wrote: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/co..._name.html

Hundreds and hundreds of contradictions are listed there, including some very important ones. And an interesting thing from you're own book:
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Also Fr0do, you appear to have what i like to call: the refusal to discuss syndrome. As you refuse to discuss the rather valid points made by your fellow forum posters, one might be inclined to wonder why you respond to them at all, and even begin to be fascinated as to why you are posting here.

Simply, if you do not intend to be rational, in a place where rationality is held with almost sacred ambition: Either begin to be rational, or go somewhere where irrationality is not taken as an offense (or as a proof of immense stupidity).

The skeptics bible contains erm, let me see..... ZERO proof of contradiction. It's a collection of ignorant bullshit for the small minded to use.

I don't refuse to discuss, and I'm entirely rational. You go find me one contradiction that holds water and I'll answer you. This stuff you quote is more than bullshit, and doesn't deserve a response. You gladly demonstrate your own immense stupidity. Go do as you instruct.

LOL

How can you believe in a God when there are children around the world dying of disease and hunger or a single mother with no support network about to leave her 3 kids alone and in social care because she has a tumor and 3 weeks to live? Or do they just not love Jewsus enough to be saved?

(August 29, 2009 at 4:01 pm)theVOID Wrote: LOL

How can you believe in a God when there are children around the world dying of disease and hunger or a single mother with no support network about to leave her 3 kids alone and in social care because she has a tumor and 3 weeks to live? Or do they just not love Jewsus enough to be saved?

And WFT does that have to do with anything Your superstition has less than nothing to do with my belief.

My superstition? I don't have a superstition, do you actually know what that word means because you just completely misused it, i'm asking your opinion for my own interest.

How can you believe in your world view given those things? To me the world is a beautiful thing, warts and all. I want a real world and not some fantasy. Nature plays out and it is beautiful. To quote Jon Paul on yo ass: the pure actuality has to be entirely good.

(August 29, 2009 at 5:13 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: How can you believe in your world view given those things? To me the world is a beautiful thing, warts and all. I want a real world and not some fantasy. Nature plays out and it is beautiful. To quote Jon Paul on yo ass: the pure actuality has to be entirely good.

My world view acknowledges these things happen and seeks to prevent them from happening or at least to minimize their impact through scientific advancement and humanist governance. My would view cites that anyone who would be in a position to help these people in need (including God) should attempt to do so and if the solution to so much suffering is easily obtainable and distributable (as is the case with God) then it is immoral not to help, and if the solution is not only obtainable and distributable but also costless (most certainly the case with god) then it is not only immoral not to help but also evil and sadistic.

If you consider suffering children to be a fine aspect of nature then you're twisted and immoral as your God who will not help babies born into poverty with no hope for the future and no chance for a better life. It is an aspect of nature, but not one of the beautiful ones, nature doesn't know we're here and it doesn't care, for all the great things that it has produced it has also seen so much chaos and destruction, to the point of 99.9% of all species that ever existed on this planet are now extinct.

You Christians are the Nazi's in this aspect, and God is your intergallactic Hitler. Just as they sat back and were complacent about the slaughter of the Jews, your kin are just as guilty for turning a blind eye as this being you believe in ensures suffering of millions of innocent lives. Just as the Nazi's praised Hitlers actions and couldn't get enough of the good he did for Germany economically, you religious praise God for all the good he does, believe it is his explicit will, and just as the Nazi's accepted the antisemitism as the infallible will of the Fuhrer and dared not question it because they saw him as a man far mightier and more righteous than them, you do the same for your God, claims such as "it is his will" or "he works in mysterious ways" used to mask his indifference and absolute immorality.

And FYI you can stick your pure actuality, until it is proven that God is the first cause it remains a blind assumption of origin and as such holds no more meaning than any other unfounded assumption.

Well the result of your belief seems to be identical to mine.

You misinterpret the actions of failed human to be the actions of a person attempting to follow Christs example. A result of an anti-Christ like stance is what you seem to conclude the same as me.

If you want to call it 'a fine act of nature', then of course I'd disagree. Nature as a whole 'just is'. It's nondiscriminatory. A pure actuality, which is what you're accusing of being 'evil', cannot be so given it's nature. Make your mind up whether you want to discuss it or not k?

Frodo..don't get mad because I and every other non believer can't get over the virgin with a baby business. It's a BIG deal and you aren't the first Christian to get angry when someone says that they don't believe it. I mean look what you are saying here..a virgin getting pregnant. You get all huffy about it because you know it's stupid and there's nothing you can do to make it sound remotely possible. Oh and nature is science...not God.

I wonder why every sixteen year old girl who gets knocked up by their half wit A-hole boyfriend doesn't just say she's having the son of God to keep her daddy from beating her half to death? I mean...if virgins can have babies then why hasn't that excuse been used? I often thought of using that one when I was having sex at a young age behind my parents back.

To say that the bible isn't contradicting itself or having homphobic statements and encourage discriminiation is like saying that Mein Kampf isn't a racistic book.

I also think it strange by many christians to say that they believe in science and such. but they still believe that Jesus was God in person and the son of God at the same time, and was born by a virgin.

That is just strange and not making any sence at all. As DLF says, it just sounds like a bad excuse from Mary's side.