(June 19, 2012 at 11:23 pm)Drich Wrote: [quote='Thor' pid='301292' dateline='1340142004']
Went to church and participated in the silly rituals. Not once did I receive anything that could be construed as a reply.

Quote:Did you ever ask why?

Once I figured out that "God" is imaginary, I knew why.

Quote:Gossip is a way to 'elevate' yourself above your brother. The Reason God hates it is because none of us are in a position to evelivate ourselves over anyone else.

Then why isn't one of the Commandments "Thou shalt not gossip"?

Quote:To Covet is to Want or Burn with desire for something intended for Yourself. Wanting food is not coveting, wanting to eat steak everynight like you brother does is. Wanting a house for your family is not coveting, wanting a better house than your neghbor is..

So you can't want anything better than what you already have! If my car is broken down piece of junk, I can't have a desire for a better car because .... heavens to Betsy!... that would be "coveting"! Whoever thought up this "coveting" nonsense was a real dope.

Quote:Were you going through the motions of Chriistianity for twenty years or did you activly seek God for 20 years?

I was a seeker. I looked to this deity for answers and never received one. I think 20 years is enough time to conclude I was talking to the sky.

Quote:There is a difference between going to a club where avaiable women are, and going to a clud and talking to them. Just showing up to the club does not mean your entitled to whatever you want.

Where did I say I think I should have gotten "whatever I want"? And your analogy is a poor one. A proper analogy would be that I'm told to go to a club where there are available women, but I can't see them. I'm told to speak into an intercom and the women will hear me. I can ask them whatever I want and if one of them is interested in me, she'll answer back. I go to the club every Friday night for 10 years and speak into the intercom, but no one ever answers back. I finally conclude there aren't really any women on the other end of the intercom.

Quote:Again "humanity" does not erase sin.

I see... so Gandhi's immense contributions to human rights means nothing because he once got angry... or he gossiped.... or he doesn't believe your deity is real...

Quote:It is a sin problem we have not a good deeds problem.

And your deity's idea of what constitutes "sin" is pretty screwed up.

Quote: Good deeds mean nothing in of themselves.

So there's no point in doing good deeds. Might as well be an obnoxious, unpleasant prick who keeps the ball when kids accidentally knock it into your yard. As long as you accept Jesus, your ticket is punched! WOO HOO!

Quote: Heaven is not about what you have done, it about what God has done for you.

Well, he's never done a damned thing for me.

Quote: If you or Gandi do not accept what God has done for you then know you have elected to be seperated from God for eternity.

Just as well. I'd rather not spend eternity stroking the ego of a self absorbed jerk.

Quote:Whether Gandi is in Hell or not is not for me to decide. I can only tell you is that if he knew what was required of him and turned his back on God then he does not qualify for heaven despited all of the dirty rags/works he did.

Utter stupidity.

Quote:You are confusing crime with sin. not all slights against your soceity are indeed sin. but otherwise yes. For All sin are equally sever.

Gossiping is just as severe as raping and murdering a child. If that's the case, your god is retarded.

Quote:(appearently for 20 or so years, the fact you haven't heard God should be an indicator that something is wrong with how you spent that 20 years)

What's wrong with how I spent that 20 years is that I wasted hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours worshiping a deity that doesn't exist.

Quote: God has shown you a sin and placed it on your heart and yet you are not willing to let it go. So you fester you personal luke warm version of christianity until you can say, "If I in all of my righteous work for the last how many years have not seen or heard from God, then their is no God to be seen or heard from." all the while ignoring or flat out denying the nagging sin that tugs on your heart..

Sorry to disappoint you, but no "sin" is tugging on my heart. My conclusion that your deity is non-existent is based on evidence, while your belief that this deity is based on.... ?

God does exist. Only fool can think that this universe and all creatures are just created without a creator and a purpose. This video might help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWatrTbEBIE

(June 20, 2012 at 4:23 pm)1120097 Wrote: God does exist.

Prove it.

(June 20, 2012 at 1:46 pm)Thor Wrote: Then why isn't one of the Commandments "Thou shalt not gossip"?

Because OT Jews were given only apart of the law concerning physical sin. The Law was not "complete" Till Jesus' sermon in Mat 5. After this sermon The law was expanded to matters of the Heart. Anger, lust, envy, superiority complexes/gossip, and the like.

Quote:So you can't want anything better than what you already have!

Not to the point it dominates your being. It drives your life or your being.

Quote:I was a seeker. I looked to this deity for answers and never received one. I think 20 years is enough time to conclude I was talking to the sky.

Did seeking include reading the bible? Because you are missing a general fundemental understanding of christianity that is based on the sermon on the Mt. How can one have searched for twenty years and missed this key principle?

Quote:There is a difference between going to a club where avaiable women are, and going to a clud and talking to them. Just showing up to the club does not mean your entitled to whatever you want.

Quote:Where did I say I think I should have gotten "whatever I want"?

Did you speak to God? Did God make Himself known to you? Or are you saying you simply did not want God to do any of these things?
Because Luke 11 says a Good Father will give his son what He Asks/Seeks. If you did not want God to make himself known to you then why have this conversation? what were you seeking in church for 20 years if not God?

Quote: And your analogy is a poor one.

One could say the same about your objection.

Quote: A proper analogy would be that I'm told to go to a club where there are available women, but I can't see them. I'm told to speak into an intercom and the women will hear me. I can ask them whatever I want and if one of them is interested in me, she'll answer back. I go to the club every Friday night for 10 years and speak into the intercom, but no one ever answers back. I finally conclude there aren't really any women on the other end of the intercom.

Again even in your analogy, if you can not see 'women' then you are not in the right place.
If your understanding of God is an unresponsive box then you simply showed up in the wrong place.

Quote:I see... so Gandhi's immense contributions to human rights means nothing because he once got angry... or he gossiped.... or he doesn't believe your deity is real...

Why? because good deeds do not cancel sin. You are thinking of Gandi's religion, and no part of Biblical Christianity.

Quote:And your deity's idea of what constitutes "sin" is pretty screwed up.

Why? so you do not have to seek attonement? The good news is that sin is not the end of this equasion and does not have to condemn anyone to Hell.

Quote:So there's no point in doing good deeds.

As a way of earning the right to goto Heaven, no. None what so ever.

Quote:Might as well be an obnoxious, unpleasant prick who keeps the ball when kids accidentally knock it into your yard. As long as you accept Jesus, your ticket is punched! WOO HOO!

Good deeds become currency once one is accepted into heaven. Good deeds do not have any value as a way to buy yourself into heaven.

It's like an arcade gaming token. You may have paid 25 cents for it, but outside of the arcade it is worthless, and whether you have 1 or a million tokens. The tokens in of themselves do not buy you the right to be in the Arcade. For if the owner asks you to leave your Gandi stock pile of tokens just became worthless.

Quote:Well, he's never done a damned thing for me.

Dying for your sins so you may have a choice as to where you want to spend eternity is a pretty big deal.

Quote:Just as well. I'd rather not spend eternity stroking the ego of a self absorbed jerk.

Again this is why we have been given this life. Because there are many many people like you who do not want to spend eternity with God in their heart of hearts. Your life your life's testament will be the deciding factor as to whether or not you are with God or seperated from Him. Appearently it is too easy to choose to be with God even if you do not want to when standing in His glory. This life has segergated us from said glory so we can make an accurate choice based on the condition of our hearts.

Quote:Gossiping is just as severe as raping and murdering a child. If that's the case, your god is retarded.

Severe as in deserves eternal seperation from God, yes.

Quote:What's wrong with how I spent that 20 years is that I wasted hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours worshiping a deity that doesn't exist.

Because you are the imperical standard in which all of existance is measured? In otherwords if their is a Creator God of the Universe as the bible describes. He is oblidged to do magic tricks for you so you will have cause to believe in Him??? How does that ego work for you in the rest of your life?

Quote:Sorry to disappoint you, but no "sin" is tugging on my heart.

If one does not understand what sin is then how can it tug on your heart? Which leads me to conclude that if you spent 20 years in the church, it was asleep. Or maybe you had a version of the church that did not teach the fundementals of Jesus, God, the bible, sin, evil, or anything else resembling basic christianity.. How can anyone spend this much time at church and have no recolection of any of the basics?
People who seek to be Doctors spend less time at school and become sucessful practioniers.
How can you say you were seeking anything if you have nothing to show for your efforts?

Which really is a moot point anyway. For Luke 11 tells us to Seek till we get what we have been seeking after. You have nothing to show for a 20 year effort, so unless you were seeking nothing, then you have some more seeking to do.

---

(June 20, 2012 at 4:26 pm)Ace Otana Wrote:

(June 20, 2012 at 4:23 pm)1120097 Wrote: God does exist.

Prove it.

It is not on Christians or Christianity to Proove the existance of God. This is a task the Big man has reserved for Himself and the potential believer. If you want proof, then ask seek and knock for it yourself just like everyone else who has received proof.

(June 20, 2012 at 4:29 pm)Drich Wrote: It is not on Christians or Christianity to Proove the existance of God. This is a task the Big man has reserved for Himself and the potential believer.

You can't push the burden of proof onto your imaginary friend. If you claim there is a god, the burden of proof is on you. Either you can back it up or you can't.

Quote:If you want proof, then ask seek and knock for it yourself just like everyone else who has received proof.

I've examined the claims and have found no credibility, value or explanatory power. I have already ruled it out after long thought. It's down to you to demonstrate the claim. If you can't then that's your problem.

(June 20, 2012 at 4:23 pm)1120097 Wrote: God does exist. Only fool can think that this universe and all creatures are just created without a creator and a purpose. This video might help:

Why didn't you introduce yourself?

The asshat in the video spews nothing but old tired arguments that have been refuted centuries ago. His basic argument is:

1. Things in nature look complex
2. I am scientifically ignorant
3. Therefore god.

I had not heard his reason for Islam in favor of other creation myths before so I almost pissed myself. He claims that only two religions don't compromise on the one creator god outside of creations itself concept. These two are Judaism and Islam. His reason for Islam is that unless you are born a Jew you are shit out of luck in joining the club; therefore, Islam is the only true religion.

You have not provided any evidence for any god.

[quote='Ace Otana' pid='301601' dateline='1340224990']

Quote:You can't push the burden of proof onto your imaginary friend. If you claim there is a god, the burden of proof is on you.

I haven't claimed anything God has. What's more He gave a very strict set of guidelines for those seeking Him to find Him. He also told us that for those who do not follow those guide lines they will be confused and blinded so they can find nothing.. Until they learn to seek God as He has commanded.

Again if you want proof it is between you and God to work it out.

Quote:I haven't claimed anything God has.

Uh-huh. Can you demonstrate that a god exists?

Quote:What's more He gave a very strict set of guidelines for those seeking Him to find Him. He also told us that for those who do not follow those guide lines they will be confused and blinded so they can find nothing.. Until they learn to seek God as He has commanded.

Let's replace 'god' with another character -

Quote:What's more Thor gave a very strict set of guidelines for those seeking Him to find Him. He also told us that for those who do not follow those guide lines they will be confused and blinded so they can find nothing.. Until they learn to seek Thor as He has commanded.

That argument can be applied to anything. It doesn't hold.

Quote:Again if you want proof it is between you and God to work it out.

Those who assert that a god exists have the burden of proof. You can't push it off onto an imaginary friend. It doesn't work that way.

(June 20, 2012 at 4:29 pm)Drich Wrote: Because OT Jews were given only apart of the law concerning physical sin.

So your god hands down incomplete laws? What's up with that?

Quote:The Law was not "complete" Till Jesus' sermon in Mat 5. After this sermon The law was expanded to matters of the Heart. Anger, lust, envy, superiority complexes/gossip, and the like.

So when Jesus says something it's law? Then let me ask you this, have you sold everything you own and given the money to the poor as Jesus commands in Luke 12:33? If not, why not?

Quote:Did you speak to God?

Many times. He never spoke back.

Quote:Did God make Himself known to you?

Nope.

Quote:Again even in your analogy, if you can not see 'women' then you are not in the right place.
If your understanding of God is an unresponsive box then you simply showed up in the wrong place.

How could I possibly be in "the wrong place" when this deity is supposedly everywhere?

Quote:Why? so you do not have to seek attonement?

I need "attonement" for getting angry? For gossiping? For wanting more for myself? Not buying it.

Quote: The good news is that sin is not the end of this equasion and does not have to condemn anyone to Hell.

Great! So being a serial child molester/rapist/murderer means you can still get into eternal paradise! SWEET!

Quote:So there's no point in doing good deeds.

Quote:As a way of earning the right to goto Heaven, no. None what so ever.

Then your deity sets the bar incredibly low for entry into paradise.

Q: Do you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

Yes.

CONGRATULATIONS! You're in!

Quote:Good deeds become currency once one is accepted into heaven. Good deeds do not have any value as a way to buy yourself into heaven.

"I'd like an ice cream sundae, please."

"That will be two times you gave blood and that time you helped your neighbor paint her porch."

Quote:Well, he's never done a damned thing for me.

Quote:Dying for your sins so you may have a choice as to where you want to spend eternity is a pretty big deal.

Yeah, like THAT really happened....

Quote:Gossiping is just as severe as raping and murdering a child. If that's the case, your god is retarded.

Quote:Severe as in deserves eternal seperation from God, yes.

And you just proved my point.

Quote:In otherwords if their is a Creator God of the Universe as the bible describes. He is oblidged to do magic tricks for you so you will have cause to believe in Him???

Who's asking for "magic tricks"? How about simply appearing to me and letting me know he exists? Is that too much for this deity to handle?

Quote:How can you say you were seeking anything if you have nothing to show for your efforts?

UIhhhh.... because the thing I was seeking doesn't exist.

Quote:You have nothing to show for a 20 year effort, so unless you were seeking nothing, then you have some more seeking to do.

I have no doubt I could spend the next 50 years seeking your deity and I'd still come up empty.

Quote:It is not on Christians or Christianity to Proove the existance of God.

It is if you want to come here and tell us your god is real.

Quote:If you want proof, then ask seek and knock for it yourself just like everyone else who has received proof.

You've received proof? Great! What is it? Because you'd be the first one here to ever provide it.

(June 20, 2012 at 4:43 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: You can't push the burden of proof onto your imaginary friend. If you claim there is a god, the burden of proof is on you. Either you can back it up or you can't.

Every instance of 'proof' ever recorded as being demonstrated has come from God himself. If you believe it is up to Christians to proove anything you simply do not understand God or the religion that repersents him. In short because God is in control of who has the proof to believe. He gives that 'proof' to all who follow His perscribed path. Nothing has changed in the last 2000 years that would allow or rather force a disbeliever into a belief. This would eliminate the reason we have been given this life.

If you believe their is 'proof' of belief outside of what God offers to the believer then please show scriptural proof, that such a thing exists. Otherwise know you like the rest of us are bound by the paradyme God has established. In that He alone is in a position to provide proof of His own existance. If you do not have 'proof' it is because God does not want you to have it, and know it will be hidden from you with all of the power God has until you humble yourself before Him and Ask, Seek and Knock for it as luke 11 has directed.