(June 28, 2012 at 2:36 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: I have the feeling that someone made a joke that backfired.

I have the feeling someone is making petty snipes when they reckon they are using the ignore button.


What exactly is your problem?

I think anti-depressants are over-prescribed. While I'm not saying they don't work or that there's no legitimate use for them (which there is), I really think there's a lot of alternatives to be explored before them, particularly diet, exercise, and social-life related. As has already been mentioned there's a support thread here. As Tiberius said, we can't really replace professional medical help, just offer support.

(June 28, 2012 at 9:08 pm)Tempus Wrote: I think anti-depressants are over-prescribed. While I'm not saying they don't work or that there's no legitimate use for them (which there is), I really think there's a lot of alternatives to be explored before them, particularly diet, exercise, and social-life related.

Disclaimer: I am not a mental health professional. I am a mental patient. This is all based on my own personal experience and the advice is probably worth no more than you're paying for it (i.e. nothing).

I don't disagree with what you've said, Tempus, but I'd like to add a bit to it as well.

I also think there is cause to believe that anti-depressants are over-prescribed (I would extend this to other psychiatric meds as well). Non-chemical therapeutic techniques (to include dietary modification, exercise, etc) are certainly an important part of a holistic therapeutic approach and in some cases medication is not needed.

However, every case is different and should be evaluated by a competent professional. In some cases, medication is needed to stabilize a patient so that they can participate in therapy.

When depression or other mental illness has you by the nuts, it can be damn near impossible to find the willpower to help yourself, or even to believe that you can. It takes time to learn the necessary skills one does not have - and medication can be necessary in the interim.

I have been off medication since early December of last year (under medical supervision), but I did need the meds for quite a long time to be able to fully participate in therapy, and there will likely come a time when I will need them again.

This is a discussion to be had and a decision to be made between you and a professional.

(June 28, 2012 at 9:08 pm)Tempus Wrote: As has already been mentioned there's a support thread here. As Tiberius said, we can't really replace professional medical help, just offer support.

+1 on the above.

---

(June 28, 2012 at 7:00 pm)padraic Wrote: Zaphod; are you sure your doctor said "manic-depression"? I ask because that term is not used any more. The condition is called 'bipolar disorder' and is much harder to treat than 'reactive' or 'endogenous' depression. I urge you to see a psychiatrist for a diagnosis and treatment.

Pad is quite right on all the above. If a doc referred to your condition as "manic depression", I would urge you to get a second opinion (which you might want to do in any case).

@Zaphod: I have bipolar disorder, and if you want to talk, I'm happy to either on the mental health support thread or in PM.

---

One important thing I'd like to add: Don't try to self-diagnose or self-medicate. Leave both to professionals.

I'm not really sure if this is the place for it but I too had an episode of depression when I was 25. It lasted what seemed like forever but was probably a couple of years. I never was treated, didn't take any medications but eventually got past it.

My mother was bipolar so there may have been a 'nature' component to it but I suffered enough life shocks in rapid succession to make 'environment' equally suspect. Over a couple months my first wife divorced me, I was in a car crash that killed my brother and busted me up pretty good, and then my dog got run over while walking at night because of my being distracted.

To be honest I think I was experiencing manic states through marijuana use leading up to the depression. I had never really been so much as blue until after I was no longer able to get high by getting high. The highs were flattening out before the car crash or the loss of my dog, but not until after the divorce.

Before the highs and low, I was interested in many things and enjoyed lots of activities including artwork, conversations with friends, dancing and everything to do with nature. When I was depressed interest and enjoyment felt impossible. Social situations felt overwhelming. I could no longer make small talk and this made me feel very self conscious which lead to withdrawing more and more.

Getting over it wasn't the same thing as getting back to what I had been like before. It felt like that person simply went away and I built back from scratch. If I knew then what I know now I would have wanted definitely sought out medical help. No way I would have gone through that if I had known there was an alternative. I've never had another depressive episode, nor have I experienced the highs I had with drugs and I don't really miss either. I like where I am now better than before. I guess it's true what they say that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. I think I get people -including me- better now.

(June 28, 2012 at 10:49 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: However, every case is different and should be evaluated by a competent professional. In some cases, medication is needed to stabilize a patient so that they can participate in therapy.

I agree. I acknowledge there's circumstances where that's the case. It's not always going to be that someone has the luxury to go for a jog and eat some vegetables for a week, and bam, they're better (or at least on the road to feeling better). Sometimes that just won't work or, as you said, they need to be stabilized first before that (or some other treatment) can begin.

(June 28, 2012 at 10:49 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: When depression or other mental illness has you by the nuts, it can be damn near impossible to find the willpower to help yourself, or even to believe that you can. It takes time to learn the necessary skills one does not have - and medication can be necessary in the interim.

That's true. Not too long ago I was reading through a diary I used to maintain and came across a section where I acknowledged the path to, uh, wellness, I guess you'd call it, but felt that it was too difficult and too long to endure. What's striking is how lucid it reads - totally sane and sober, not emotional, just devoid of any will or motivation whatsoever. Although I also experienced highs which served as a frightening contrast to the lows. Your point about stabilizing is a good one. I never sought any treatment and eventually (after about a year) the highs and lows evened out, but I'm not sure whether I'd advocate that even though I'm personally happy I did things that way. Were it someone else or slightly different circumstances things could have easily ended in a suicide or something worse.

Another aspect of the transformation out of depression is knowing that no matter how bad a situation is, there have been numerous other people in the same situation, theirs may have even had a more unfortunate twist added that you, thankfully, didn't have to deal with.

I've suffered from depression too. I needed meds to get out of the hole. I've been off meds for 18-24 months now, and I am maintaining nicely. Diet and exercise are helpful, but if you're in the depression hole, it's hard to kick start better lifestyle choices (that's where the meds came in for me). I go to a therapist regularly, attend support groups, eat better, and exercise. I feel better than I have... ever, really. For me the depression stemmed from faulty negative beliefs that I held about myself, my family, and people and situations in general. That's what I'm working on in therapy. I don't have so many intrusive, negative thoughts anymore because I've begun to debunk them within my own mind. Not to say that they don't pop up every now and again, but it's a lot easier for me to question them and not take them for the truth.

(June 28, 2012 at 2:39 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: I've got depression, and have recently started taking antidepressants, and even those don't totally cure it. The key thing is that there is no cure, only treatment.

Depression can be cured. Long-term antidepressant use does not help, it only keeps people in depression. Antidepressants are (can be) effective short-term.

One of my friends has been depressed for about 20 years now, the last 15 of those years on antidepressants. There's nothing his friends can do for him, because the drugs totally numb his ability to appreciate happiness. A different friend of mine - same drug (Effexor) stopped using it (took him months and months to get off the drug because it's highly addictive), and came out of his depression.

GP's are not well equipped to deal with mental issues - even though people come to them with them all the time. Their area of expertise is physical illness and infection. Personally, if I could change the law, GP's would only be allowed to prescribe antidepressants short term, and their patients would be referred to a psychiatrist for continued treatment (the psychiatrist would then handle the prescription of their medication from that point on).

What ever you do DO NOT listen to Daniel.

(June 28, 2012 at 9:07 am)Zaphod Beeblebrox Wrote: I have a serious problem recently for about 1 year now im very depressed,even my doctor said that i have manic depressed.

How can i cure this,i wake up every morning with the same problems,that sucks me in depression.

Before you do anything else (i.e. antidepressants) try SAMe and exercise. SAMe is naturally occurring in the body but you may not have enough of it. If you're in America, it's an over the counter dietary supplement. In some countries it's only available by prescription (it's prescribed for depression and some forms of arthritis). Buy a good brand (Nature Made in America) because the stuff isn't extremely stable in pill form. Take it first thing in the morning and don't eat for 30 minutes. There's usually some mild gastrointestinal side effects that pass after a week or so. Some people take half a dose in the morning and the other half 30 minutes before lunch. Don't take it later than that as that might disturb your sleep. It typically comes in 400mg pills. Start with one of those daily (cut in half if you prefer) and increase after a week if necessary. Mild depression should respond to 400mg. Very depressed people are sometimes put on 1600 mg daily. Again, though, you start low and build up to the smallest effective dose. After you take it in the morning, go for a 20-30 minute walk.

Note that I'm not a medical professional and all this stuff comes from the interwebs and/or personal experience. Also note that the above regards depression. You also mention manic depression (bipolar disorder). I don't know if SAMe is used for that. If that's what you have, do some research.