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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 3, 2012 at 11:37 am
(August 3, 2012 at 11:26 am)spockrates Wrote: I would never equivocate, "eats my flesh" with "eat me" but the idiom of eating flesh and drinking blood was well known to his ancient Jewish audience to mean killing someone. However, in the context of the rest of John, chapter 6, the analogy doesn't seem to fit.
Some Protestants claim the words, "eats my flesh and drinks my blood" mean "believes in me." Catholics claim he was speaking of eating and drinking the bread and wine served at Mass.
"It was a joke, son. It was a joke." -- Some rooster
But still... Heysuese was pretty clear when he said to eat his flesh and drink his blood. It's almost as if I was right or something.
(August 3, 2012 at 11:26 am)spockrates Wrote: The end game is to find the answer to the opening post. I want to examine the reasons why others believe I've found a real and significant contradiction.
Not just this thread. I am looking for the endgame,what you hope to learn from being in this thread as a whole, what you look to achieve in questioning religion.
I'm not so dull as to not understand that you are looking to evaluate the truth of the contradiction you offered, seeing as it is the title of the thread.
My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true.
Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-Bertrand Russell
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 3, 2012 at 11:38 am
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2012 at 11:40 am by spockrates.)
(August 3, 2012 at 9:09 am)Zen Badger Wrote: I can watch the theists mental gymnastics for hours, seriously.
There are few things more entertaining.
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
--Spock
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 3, 2012 at 11:39 am
(August 3, 2012 at 10:41 am)Skepsis Wrote: In other words, Jesus told his congregation "EAT ME!!" and they took him seriously.
Jesus was a professional troll, born before the internet age. What a pro.
(August 3, 2012 at 11:26 am)spockrates Wrote: The end game is to find the answer to the opening post. I want to examine the reasons why others believe I've found a real and significant contradiction.
Which others Spocky? I read the other thread in its entirety and all I saw was suggested ambiguity nothing real or significant at all, just fluff
Oh and your signature should say Arthur Conan Doyle, not Spock 
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 3, 2012 at 11:47 am
(August 3, 2012 at 7:14 am)spockrates Wrote: (August 3, 2012 at 7:09 am)Zen Badger Wrote: Where's the rest of it?
Hi Zen. How've you been? Here they are:
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
(Ezekiel 14:9)
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.
(Hebrews 6:18)
I'm pretty sure I've seen these two compared before on an apologist site. I seem to remember that although God does not lie, he does use lying spirits to deceive false prophets. As is typical, I can't find the damn site where I read it before.
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 3, 2012 at 12:37 pm
(August 3, 2012 at 11:37 am)Skepsis Wrote: (August 3, 2012 at 11:26 am)spockrates Wrote: I would never equivocate, "eats my flesh" with "eat me" but the idiom of eating flesh and drinking blood was well known to his ancient Jewish audience to mean killing someone. However, in the context of the rest of John, chapter 6, the analogy doesn't seem to fit.
Some Protestants claim the words, "eats my flesh and drinks my blood" mean "believes in me." Catholics claim he was speaking of eating and drinking the bread and wine served at Mass.
"It was a joke, son. It was a joke." -- Some rooster
But still... Heysuese was pretty clear when he said to eat his flesh and drink his blood. It's almost as if I was right or something.
(August 3, 2012 at 11:26 am)spockrates Wrote: The end game is to find the answer to the opening post. I want to examine the reasons why others believe I've found a real and significant contradiction.
Not just this thread. I am looking for the endgame,what you hope to learn from being in this thread as a whole, what you look to achieve in questioning religion.
I'm not so dull as to not understand that you are looking to evaluate the truth of the contradiction you offered, seeing as it is the title of the thread.
Wisdom is the goal, Skepsis. Is there another more worth seeking?
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
--Spock
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 3, 2012 at 12:40 pm
You should probably make sure there's wisdom to be had in the place you're looking to begin with. 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 3, 2012 at 12:43 pm
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2012 at 1:31 pm by spockrates.)
(August 3, 2012 at 11:39 am)Chuff Wrote: (August 3, 2012 at 10:41 am)Skepsis Wrote: In other words, Jesus told his congregation "EAT ME!!" and they took him seriously.
Jesus was a professional troll, born before the internet age. What a pro.
(August 3, 2012 at 11:26 am)spockrates Wrote: The end game is to find the answer to the opening post. I want to examine the reasons why others believe I've found a real and significant contradiction.
Which others Spocky? I read the other thread in its entirety and all I saw was suggested ambiguity nothing real or significant at all, just fluff
Agreed. No significant contradictions demonstrated in the previous thread.
Quote:Oh and your signature should say Arthur Conan Doyle, not Spock
Spock attributes the quote to one of his ancient ancestors. Given that his ancestors were exploring outer space while ours were still living in caves, I'd say Vulcans have a better claim to originating that bit of wisdom!
(August 3, 2012 at 11:47 am)Gambit Wrote: (August 3, 2012 at 7:14 am)spockrates Wrote: Hi Zen. How've you been? Here they are:
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
(Ezekiel 14:9)
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.
(Hebrews 6:18)
I'm pretty sure I've seen these two compared before on an apologist site. I seem to remember that although God does not lie, he does use lying spirits to deceive false prophets. As is typical, I can't find the damn site where I read it before.
Perhaps you are referring to this passage?
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shald persuade him, and prevail also: go forth and do so.
(1 Kings 22:21-22 )
(August 3, 2012 at 12:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You should probably make sure there's wisdom to be had in the place you're looking to begin with.
How little faith you have in your fellow forum friends, my friend!
I hope to learn much from the answers they give me.
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 3, 2012 at 2:04 pm
That seems to fit the description, as I remember it.
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 3, 2012 at 2:35 pm
(August 3, 2012 at 12:37 pm)spockrates Wrote: Wisdom is the goal, Skepsis. Is there another more worth seeking?
Wisdom is a bit... general. I was hoping for a more short-term answer, but not so short-term as to reference this thread.
Ahh... Nevermind. I just wanted to know more about your motives so I might be able to understand your character. It's clear you don't like getting picked at for information, so I'll leave it be.
My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true.
Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-Bertrand Russell
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RE: A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?
August 4, 2012 at 2:23 am
(August 3, 2012 at 7:14 am)spockrates Wrote: And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
(Ezekiel 14:9)
And if the prophet gives a deceiving prophecy, then I the LORD have deceived him by not giving him the prophecy, I will make a fool of him before My nation, Israel, for trying to deceive them.
spockrates Wrote:That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.
(Hebrews 6:18)
The two verses have nothing to do with each other. I hope this clears things up for you.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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