(August 4, 2012 at 11:19 pm)Drich Wrote: As 'we' have already discussed God is not subject to your expectation of 'loving.'

Which raises the question, why would anyone wilfully dedicate their souls to the kind of shithead who would give a kid cancer to teach a lesson. To scare the rest into unquestioned compliance with his caprice?

That's worth getting up early on Sunday for, all right.

(August 4, 2012 at 7:19 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Ok, let's forget about our hypothetical little boy for a moment. Maybe he's just too small for a god to notice or bother with. Instead, let's pray for an end to all cancer; wipe cancer from the face of the planet. It would be trivial for an entity with the powers of a god; after all, mere human scientists have done just that with smallpox (apart from samples held in extremely secure storage, just in case). Just imagine the suffering that would be alleviated by ending a horrible disease like cancer. What would happen as a result of our prayer? And I'm not talking about praying for medical science to stumble upon a breakthrough, either; it's a now-you-see-it-now-you-don't thing I'm after. Is that the sort of prayer this god would listen to?

Yes and no.

No in the He would not answer this prayer and leave the world as it is. (in sin)

Yes, when "His Kingdom Comes and His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven." Meaning when Man's reign is over and Christ returns to rule.

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(August 4, 2012 at 11:28 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

(August 4, 2012 at 11:19 pm)Drich Wrote: As 'we' have already discussed God is not subject to your expectation of 'loving.'

Which raises the question, why would anyone wilfully dedicate their souls to the kind of shithead who would give a kid cancer to teach a lesson. To scare the rest into unquestioned compliance with his caprice?

That's worth getting up early on Sunday for, all right.

Why do you think God gave anyone cancer

(August 4, 2012 at 11:32 pm)Drich Wrote: Why do you think God gave anyone cancer

Because he's a shithead?

(August 4, 2012 at 11:38 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

(August 4, 2012 at 11:32 pm)Drich Wrote: Why do you think God gave anyone cancer

Because he's a shithead?

So, simple faith? Or do you have some sort of 'proof?'

(August 4, 2012 at 1:57 am)Godschild Wrote:

Thor Wrote:Then why do children (or anyone, really) get cancer in the first place?

Could be a lot of different reasons, since I'm not a doctor I wouldn't know.

Thor Wrote:I wasn't asking this question from a medical standpoint. I was asking why your supposedly "loving" deity would allow a child to suffer with cancer.

God does not interfere with way things go in the world necessarily. God is interested in our eternal life, that's not to say this life is not important to Him, but like God says what good is it for a man to gain the whole world and then lose his soul. God wants all of us with Him forever, that however our choice.

Quote:Not necessarily, God may use the situation to help a family in some way,

Thor Wrote:WHAT?!?!? How in the hell could inflicting someone with cancer ever help a family? Not to mention that battling cancer creates great hardships and causes people to go bankrupt. If this deity is so stupid that he thinks inflicting cancer on someone "helps the family", I would want him to stay far away from me.

What do you mean what, no one said God inflicted cancer on anyone, that's your way of seeing God, you want Him to look as bad as possible. When He does heal those with terrible diseases you couldn't care less.

Quote: or to help some individual unrelated to the family, to see how precious life is, or any number of things that life throws at us.

Thor Wrote:Wow! So you think your deity might inflict cancer on you to help someone who is unrelated to you "see how precious life is"? So you would be okay with it if this deity gave your child cancer so your next door neighbor could say, "Look at that poor kid next door. It makes me realize how precious life is"?

Again you are interjecting God as the one who inflict disease, prove your statement. This interjection renders the rest of your statement useless.

Quote: After the result of the illness has passed many will look back on the experience and see God's reason

Thor Wrote:Yes, I'm sure once the funeral is over the parents say "I just had a revelation and I now know god's reasons for letting Billy suffer! Praise!"

I said nothing like that, you are trying to turn my statements into what you want them to be. Like I said before only those who are going to listen to God will hear Him, He may explain to many but only those who will listen will hear. These revelations may come years later, it's all in God's timing.

Quote: You are a ungrateful person to the 3rd magnitude.

Thor Wrote:Not at all! If this deity appeared and healed me or a member of my family, I'd be very grateful. Of course, I would still wonder why he did nothing to heal all those children who died throughout history.

Why would you not ask Him, I mean there He is standing in front of you. just ask.

Quote: When people ask God to heal a person and that's all they ask, that in itself shows how shallow their belief is, if they have any at all. How many prayers do you think have been raised up to God in hospitals with this little note attached a the end, "if you do this I promise I will always be loyal to you." Do people really believe they can fool God, especially since they just asked God to heal a loved one, I think not, they use God as an insurance policy. When people do this why should God answer their prayer and if He does do they deserve an explanation, I think not, why, because they will show their gratitude by ignoring God until the next crisis.

Thor Wrote:Except that there have been many people who have devoted their lives to this deity and, in a moment of crisis, have turned to him for help. Only to get none.

You need to prove this statement.

Quote:Why should God explain something to those who will not listen

Thor Wrote:If your deity appeared and explained his reasons to me, I would most certainly listen.

Why does He need to appear, I do not need to see Him to know He's working in my life.

Quote:Being a deacon in the Baptist church I've seen this happen many times

Thor Wrote:I'm sure you THINK you've seen this many times. Of course, there's nothing to substantiate any of it.

Yes there is, my personal experiences with Him, I've seen God work in peoples lives many times, I have no doubt.

Quote:God says He will not answer all prayer, God also says He will not listen to some prayers.

Thor Wrote:Actually, in the Babble Jesus says that you will have whatever you want as long as you believe and pray in his name.

I know what verse you basing this statement on, however you're wrong, the meaning of that verse in't close to what you say. You will receive nothing that's outside God's will for your life, God controls your life far more than you will ever know. Jesus is interested in a relationship with people, not how much money or things you want.

Quote: I know for a fact He answers prayer,

Thor Wrote:You can't possibly know this "for a fact".

Yes I do, I've seen to many prayers answered with specifics, all of them could not have been coincidental. No way to many answered.

Quote: I've experienced it to many times for it to be remotely considered a coincidence, one example, prayers having specific properties within them.

Thor Wrote:Why couldn't it be a coincidence? What specifically was prayed for and what happened? I'll bet you never prayed for a paralyzed person to made whole again and they got up and walked. I'll bet you never prayed for a person with a missing limb to have the limb restored and it suddenly regenerated.

No, I haven't prayed for those things, they have not been a part of my life. I've been on this forum long enough to know not to share those personal specifics, you guys are merciless. You care nothing for the feelings of believers.

(August 3, 2012 at 5:35 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: Theologically, sin is a form of cancer.
Prayer cures that.

Besides, if there were no correlation between prayer and health, you would have to think of another reason why religious people live longer.

National average life expectancy for :-

USA (78% Christian) - 78.2 years

Japan (84% Shinto/Buddhist) - 82.6 years

All figures from Wiki.

Regards

Grimesy

Quote:The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.

The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.

The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.

The French drink excessive amounts of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.

The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.

CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.

Attribution: http://www.citehr.com/10746-speaking-eng...z22fgTClJI

(August 3, 2012 at 12:16 am)Drich Wrote: Making Prayer little more than a formal wishing cermony. God is not a magical genie who's job it is to grant you wishes. Nor is He obligated to hear or respond to wishes.

(August 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 3, 2012 at 2:01 am)Minimalist Wrote: So..."jesus" was a liar, according to you?

Matthew 21:

Maybe it only works on fig trees and mountains? That would seem to make it fairly fucking worthless...unless you grow figs on a mountain.

two seperat things here.. Unless you believe christ prayed that the fig tree would never bear fruit again before He cursed it, and also we have the model of what a prayer is, and drying up fig trees moving mountains has nothing to do with prayer. the bit about the mountains and fig trees was about simple faith and the authority given them. It had nothing to do with what they asked in prayer.

What a bull shit response. Jesus didn't put a disclaimer on his statement and since your 'word of god' is flawless, we can assume that there is no mistaking what he meant since it MUST be word for word from his very mouth. Lets try this again ...

Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

I knows MANY devout christians who begged god on their knees with tears in their eyes to save their loved ones. They were (and somehow still are) TRUE believers. None the less, they did not receive what they asked for.

So either you're a liar or your god is a liar. Which is it?
Get ready for a serious steaming pile of apologist's bull shit.

(August 4, 2012 at 11:50 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 4, 2012 at 11:38 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Because he's a shithead?

So, simple faith? Or do you have some sort of 'proof?'

Oh, I thought you were asking for his motive.

If God made everything, he made both cancer and the five-year old children who are tragically susceptible to it, and if God is all-knowing, he must have been aware of this and made this lethal compatibility intentionally. So, it's kind of hard to blame anything else for little Jimmy's leukemia, even if God isn't pointing his finger and giving kids the cancer directly.

(August 5, 2012 at 7:40 am)pgrimes15 Wrote:

(August 3, 2012 at 5:35 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: Theologically, sin is a form of cancer.
Prayer cures that.

Besides, if there were no correlation between prayer and health, you would have to think of another reason why religious people live longer.

National average life expectancy for :-

USA (78% Christian) - 78.2 years

Japan (84% Shinto/Buddhist) - 82.6 years

All figures from Wiki.

Regards

Grimesy

What is the life expectancy of a Japaneese christian and a Shinto/buddhist who lives in America?
&
Why does a Christian who has an eternity planned out with the God He loves with all of His being want to be here in this life any longer than He needs to be?
This life is a curse or rather plagued with curses. It is the closest thing to a satan run realm there is. Only those who Fear the comming judgement see death as the curse.