(September 18, 2012 at 7:38 am)Puddleglum Wrote: OK Christians. Your chance.
Hello Puddleglum,
I am going to let you know up front, this is going to be several posts long. I am posting it all here because, well frankly, you asked.
Please (all of you) read through all the posts before you start to critique details. I'm not saying that details aren't important, but I'd rather that you had the big picture first.
The Bible is often written off as just another book. It's often discounted because men wrote it, and men are just as prone to error then as they are now. And it wasn't even scholarly people that wrote the book! You have fishermen, tent makers, shepherds, tax collectors, men that lived apart from society in caves and deserts, etc. So if this rag-tag group of outcasts writes something, why do people give it so much weight/value?
Read what I'm going to write below and tell me who this is talking about.
• “Those who hate me without cause are more numerous than the hairs of my head” (Ps 69:4).
• “The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers conspire together against the Lord and His Anointed One” (Ps 2:2).
• “Even my friend in whom I trusted, one who ate my bread, has lifted up his heel against me” (Ps 41:9).
• “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered” (Zch 13:7).
• “Then I said to them, ‘If it seems right to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.’ So they weighed my wages, 30 pieces of silver. ‘Throw it to the potter,’ the Lord said to me—this magnificent price I was valued by them. So I took the 30 pieces of silver and threw it into the house of the Lord, to the potter” (Zch 11:12–13).
• “They are striking the judge of Israel on the cheek with a rod” (Mc 5:1).
• “I gave My back to those who beat Me, and My cheeks to those who tore out My beard. I did not hide My face from scorn and spitting” (Is 50:6).
• “They pierced my hands and my feet” (Ps 22:16).
• “My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?” (Ps 22:1).
• “Everyone who sees me mocks me; they sneer and shake their heads: ‘He relies on the Lord; let Him rescue him; let the Lord deliver him, since He takes pleasure in him’ ” (Ps 22:7–8).
• “They gave me gall for my food, and for my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink” (Ps 69:21).
• “I am poured out like water, and all my bones are disjointed; my heart is like wax, melting within me” (Ps 22:14).
• “Yet He Himself bore our sicknesses, and He carried our pains; but we in turn regarded Him stricken, struck down by God, and afflicted” (Is 53:4).
• “He was oppressed and afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth. Like a lamb led to the slaughter and like a sheep silent before her shearers, He did not open His mouth” (Is 53:7).
• “They divided my garments among themselves, and they cast lots for my clothing” (Ps 22:18).
• “He submitted Himself to death” (Is 53:12).
• “He bore the sin of many and interceded for the rebels” (Is 53:12).
• “You may not break any of its bones” (Ex 12:46).
• “He protects all his bones; not one of them is broken” (Ps 34:20).
• “They will look at Me whom they pierced” (Zch 12:10).
• “They made His grave with the wicked, and with a rich man at His death, although He had done no violence and had not spoken deceitfully” (Is 53:9).
• “For You will not abandon me to Sheol; You will not allow Your Faithful One to see the Pit” (Ps 16:10).
• “You ascended to the heights, taking away captives; You received gifts from people, even from the rebellious, so that the Lord God might live there” (Ps 68:18).
• “The Lord declared to my Lord: ‘Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies Your footstool’ ” (Ps 110:1).
Who do you think this is referring to?
All of these scriptures are taken from the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. This was all completed some 400 years before Jesus was born. This is a widely accepted fact, in fact these were all translated from Hebrew into Greek in Alexandria roughly 150 years before Jesus' birth.
These writings, these predictions are SO specific that they leave no room for error.
No other religious literature has prophecies so distinct, so specific that have been fulfilled in the way that Christ has fulfilled the Hebrew Bible.
Christianity is not just another religion, Jesus is not just another prophet, the Bible is not just another book.
It is true that not all gospel accounts record the exact same story. But what do they differ on?
The details....
When Jesus is sending out his disciples to preach the gospel, heal the sick, and cast out demons Luke records
Luke 9:3 (NLT) — 3 “Take nothing for your journey,” he instructed them. “Don’t take a walking stick, a traveler’s bag, food, money, or even a change of clothes.
Mark says...
Mark 6:8 (NLT) — 8 He told them to take nothing for their journey except a walking stick—no food, no traveler’s bag, no money.
Here's another one...
Mark 16:5 (NLT) — 5 When they entered the tomb, they saw a young man clothed in a white robe sitting on the right side. The women were shocked,
then in Luke
Luke 24:3–4 (NLT) — 3 So they went in, but they didn’t find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 As they stood there puzzled, two men suddenly appeared to them, clothed in dazzling robes.
So what are we to believe?! Is it all false?
Think about your own experiences. When people witness an event, do they all recount the event exactly the same? If 2 people witnessed a car accident, would they be able to line up all of the details exactly the same? Probably not, but they would get the main and plain things right.
In our accounts above, in the first story Jesus is sending out the disciples and the point is that they are not to rely on what they can pack, but rather they are to rely on God to provide.
In the second story the point is that angels were there and one of the angels ended up speaking to the women who discovered the empty tomb.
If all of the gospel accounts have exactly the same information, that would actually damage their credibility. It would appear that they had all met up and corroborated their stories before writing them down, like you would have to do if you were making up lies.
Because the gospel accounts don't line up on every detail but still say the same things about the main and plain it actually lends to their credibility!
So what do the gospel accounts all have in common then? What is the main and plain of the gospels?
All four gospels agree that:
Jesus of Nazareth was crucified in Jerusalem by Roman authority during the Passover Feast, having been arrested and convicted on charges of blasphemy by the Jewish Sanhedrin and then slandered before the governor Pilate on charges of treason. He died within several hours and was buried Friday afternoon by Joseph of Arimathea in a tomb, which was shut with a stone. Certain female followers of Jesus, including Mary Magdelene, having observed his interment, visited his tomb early on Sunday morning, only to find it empty. Thereafter, Jesus appeared alive from the dead to the disciples, including Peter, who then became proclaimers of the message of His resurrection.
Minor discrepancies don't affect our case. Historians expect to find inconsistencies even in the most reliable resources. No historian simply throws out a source because it has inconsistencies. Otherwise we'd have to be skeptical about all secular historical narratives that also contain such inconsistencies, which is wholly unreasonable.
There are a lot of people that do not want the Bible to be true, but the fact remains, we have good reason to believe that Jesus of Nazareth walked this earth and really did rise from the grave.
The historian, Kenneth Scott Latourette, says, “As the centuries pass, the evidence is accumulating that measured by his affect on history Jesus is the most influential life ever lived on the planet.”
The non Christian, Historian, H.G. Wells, says, “I’m a historian. I am not a believer, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all of history.”
Even Fidel Castro, the great Communist Dictator and Revolutionary in Cuba, who does not love and worship Jesus Christ as we do, says this, “I have always considered Christ to be one of the greatest revolutionaries in the history of the world.”
Matt 5:17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
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We have better historical evidence for the existence of Jesus of Nazareth than we do for Alexander the Great. The question isn't, "Is Jesus real?" the question is "Was this guy legit?"
What was Jesus about? Was he really just a good teacher? Perhaps...the only problem with saying that he was a good teacher is what he actually taught. He didn't just say, "Now you make sure and behave nicely to other people, like you would want them to treat you," but rather he taught things like, "I am the Son of God, I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying." These claims are outrageous. So you have to come to the conclusion, this guy is either who he says he is, or he's a lying lunatic. Because of his teachings you can't say he's a good teacher, that wouldn't make sense. You are forced to pick a side.
So if we want to look into, "what if he is who he says he is," the question arrises, "What did he come here for?"
The culture of a first century Jew was obviously very different than our culture. Every culture has their distinctions that set them apart, for the Jews it was the law. There are over 600 laws given in the Hebrew Bible (our Old Testament). These laws govern all aspects of life. How to worship, how to do business, how to marry, how to divorce, how to...you name it. The guys in charge of government were also the same guys in charge of church affairs, the fancy word for it is "theocracy." This is the culture that Jesus was born into.
Jesus is extremely controversial because Jews believe there is only one God and this God gave them a law to keep, now here comes a carpenter from some hick town that is teaching people that he is the Son of God and he seems to be doing away with the law and teaching others to do the same.
To this end he says, "“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose."
Think of this, there are two ways to do away with an acorn. You can set it on a stone and smash it to pieces with a hammer. Or, you can plant it in the ground and let it fulfill itself and become a tree. By becoming a tree, it would give meaning and purpose to the acorn. This is similar to Jesus relationship to the law. By fulfilling the law of Moses he gives it purpose and meaning.
Notice he did NOT say, "I did not come to abolish the law, but I have come to give you a new set of rules to follow."
It's not about being a good person, it's not about following rules, it's about Jesus.
“For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.” (Romans 3:20, NLT)
“I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.” (Galatians 2:21, NLT)
“But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.” (Romans 3:21–22, NLT)
So what do you think, is he legit? If so, what are you going to do next? Jesus' offer still stands,
“I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.” (John 5:24, NLT)
1 Corinthians 15:7 (NLT) —7 Then he was seen by James and later by all the apostles.
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A lot of people don't know that Jesus had a half brother. He actually had two half brothers that have contributed to the New Testament, James and Jude. We often hear of Jesus as being referred to as the Son of God, but we don't usually think about his humanity. He had a mom, half brothers and sisters.
During his life his family did not believe in him as the Messiah or Son of God, he was just Jesus the carpenter, and a weirdo at that.
John 7:1–5 (NLT)
1 After this, Jesus traveled around Galilee. He wanted to stay out of Judea, where the Jewish leaders were plotting his death. 2 But soon it was time for the Jewish Festival of Shelters, 3 and Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea, where your followers can see your miracles! 4 You can’t become famous if you hide like this! If you can do such wonderful things, show yourself to the world!” 5 For even his brothers didn’t believe in him.
Or again,
Mark 3:20–21 (NLT)
20 One time Jesus entered a house, and the crowds began to gather again. Soon he and his disciples couldn’t even find time to eat. 21 When his family heard what was happening, they tried to take him away. “He’s out of his mind,” they said.
Now what's interesting is later we have historical evidence to support that James has a change of heart and begins to proclaim Jesus as God! James became a pillar of the early Christian church in Jerusalem, penned the book we know as "James," and accrued such hatred from the Jewish leaders for his teachings that he was stoned to death before the sanhedrin.
The question arrises, what would it take for you to worship your own brother as God? Especially if while he was alive you thought he was a nut-case.
On top of that the Jewish conception of a Messiah was one who would conquer over the foes that were oppressing Israel, even if James thought his brother was the Messiah, his being put to death, naked, shamefully, on a cross like a criminal would have squashed that belief!
James became so convicted of his belief that Jesus was God that he was willing to be stoned to death for that belief. We see people today dying for what they believe in. What we never see is people dying for something that they know to be a lie.
What would it take for you to worship your own brother as God? The answer in James' case is that he saw his brother, risen from the dead, the God-man who had conquered sin and death. That's what it takes to change one's belief so drastically and so irrevocably.
Jesus is alive, he has risen, his own brothers worship Him as God. Think about that.
John 6:29 (NLT)
29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”
Galatians 2:16 (NLT) — 16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”
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You want to know why there are a lot of Christians that are terrible and hypocritical and hateful? Why there are Christians who are more likely to point a finger at you and call you a name than to actually help you or show you any love? Why there are Christians that think there sole purpose is to be a Republican and hate gays/lesbians and tell others when they are in sin?
Most "Christians" don't get that being a Christian is all about Jesus! What do I mean by this? Being a Christian is often looked at like it's some set of rules and the better you can keep those rules the more that God will love you.
So, if this is the "christianity" that I know, and I'm trying really hard not to look at porn, when I find out that you're looking at porn I'm going to condemn you! Why should I try really hard to stay away from it and you get to enjoy it the whole time!
You know who Jesus hated the most? Hypocritical, judgmental, religious people. This is what he said of them...
Matthew 23:4 (NLT) — 4 They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.
Matthew 23:13 (NLT) — 13 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.
Matthew 23:23–28 (NLT) — 23 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. 24 Blind guides! You strain your water so you won’t accidentally swallow a gnat, but you swallow a camel! 25 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! 26 You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too. 27 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. 28 Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Christianity is not morality. It's actually the opposite! Christianity says, you can't ever please God. Nothing you do will ever be enough. You (to the contrary of popular opinion) are terrible.
BUT!!!!!
Jesus....
Matthew 9:13 (NLT) — 13 Then he added, “Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: ‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’ For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”
The secret to fulfillment is not more things! You have things and that's not working for you! It's not loving yourself! You are terrible and sinful and can't even live up to your own moral standards! You're not the solution here, you're the problem!
The secret to fulfillment is not looking inward, it's not looking from side to side longing for more money, more stuff, it's looking to the cross.
John 6:35 (NLT) — 35 Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
Luke 19:10 (NLT) — 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost.”
John 3:17 (NLT) — 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
What does it mean to be a Christian? It means that you've stopped trying to earn your way into heaven. It means you realize your need for a Savior because you can't do it! It means that you place your eternal destination in the hands of Jesus and rely on Him and His atoning death on the cross to take care of it all.
This frees you up to be nice to people! The gospel is that in Jesus, you have everything that you would ever need.....right now! In/through Christ you've been reconciled to God, and the worst thing that could ever happen to you (death) has been redeemed by Jesus so that all death would mean for you is that you get to see Jesus.
Hebrews 2:14–15 (NLT) — 14 Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death. 15 Only in this way could he set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.
When you have everything you need already, you're free to love people who don't deserve it. You're free to forgive people who hate you, you're free to show kindness to people who only show you disgust. You're free from trying to be enough, from trying to impress others, from trying to be accepted.
In Jesus you are accepted, in Jesus you are loved. Jesus is enough to satisfy your desires, Jesus has forgiven you when you were his enemy, Jesus has shown kindness to you when you were ill-deserving of it.....dwell in what Jesus has done for you and you'll find that these qualities will start showing up in your own life without you even trying.
Isaiah 45:22 (NLT) — 22 Let all the world look to me for salvation! For I am God; there is no other.
1 John 4:9–10 (NLT) — 9 God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. 10 This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.
