(October 2, 2012 at 2:59 am)Godschild Wrote: Now back to your driving assertion, if I put faith in my ability to drive with my eyes closed I would be foolish, and deserve to have an accident. However to have faith in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God makes complete sense, even if you do not see it that way.

This isn't about faith in your driving skills, but in faith that Jesus will save you from an accident. It would make sense to put faith in an omnipotent omnipresent being, if it existed, but we are asked to have faith that he even exists. How can you do that? How can you just have faith that god or the Flying Spaghetti Monster of the invisible pink unicorn exist?

He doesn't have that sort of faith Dark..remember..he has "far more"......than that sort of faith.......lol. In this instance, and it may be a first, GC and I agree on something. Almost anything is "far more" than that sort of faith.

(October 2, 2012 at 12:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: He doesn't have that faith Dark..remember..he has "far more"......

...not really. Evidence that theists present is always faith masquerading as evidence, thinly or thickly veiled. They have faith that one of the least likely possible interpretations of a fact is the correct one, many many times over. Then there is the god-of-the-gaps/cosmological argument which has even deeper faith that what we don't yet know will be revealed as evidence for god when it has always been the exact opposite of that in the past. Even if we knew everything in the universe, people could still claim on faith that there might be something we don't know, and that this is god. It reminds me of the question: Does god know for a fact that he's god, and there isn't a greater creator yet? (This would only apply if god were actually known to exist, theists are doing the same thing, just one level down.)

But whats important, and amusing in this example, is not what GC's "far more" amounts to...but that he feels that it bears mention..and believes that he has it (whatever it is). Interesting and amusing to me, anyway. It's not good enough to say "I have faith" and leave it at that...apparently..more is required.

(October 2, 2012 at 2:59 am)Godschild Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 8:19 pm)theeleven Wrote: See this is why religious people are so easily led. Think about your logic...If you knew you were being controlled you would realize that you were only a sheep in the herd. Ever wondered why they refer to Jesus as your shepherd? Also, you should logically think through the fact that faith is they're only answer to every criticism upon their beliefs. Would you believe that if you closed your eyes on the highway for one whole minute while driving on the highway you wouldn't have an accident because you had faith in your safety?

One thing I will say for us Christians we do know better than to drive down the road with our eyes closed

Not been invited to jesus take the wheel day then?

http://www.facebook.com/events/102311426566161/

(October 2, 2012 at 2:59 am)Godschild Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 8:19 pm)theeleven Wrote: See this is why religious people are so easily led. Think about your logic...If you knew you were being controlled you would realize that you were only a sheep in the herd. Ever wondered why they refer to Jesus as your shepherd? Also, you should logically think through the fact that faith is they're only answer to every criticism upon their beliefs. Would you believe that if you closed your eyes on the highway for one whole minute while driving on the highway you wouldn't have an accident because you had faith in your safety?

One thing I will say for us Christians we do know better than to drive down the road with our eyes closed, please let me know when you're going to be driving, you scare me.
Now for the serious side of things, you need to go and study what the shepherds of old were all about, then you might change your mind about why Christ is called our shepherd, probably not, you wouldn't be interested in the truth. I use far more than faith to defend my knowing that Christ is my savior. Now back to your driving assertion, if I put faith in my ability to drive with my eyes closed I would be foolish, and deserve to have an accident. However to have faith in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God makes complete sense, even if you do not see it that way.

Nice try, but you're point is invalid. If you had the ability to rationalize this subject you would understand that putting faith into the ability to drive with your eyes closed would lead to an accident because there can be empirical proof that it would lead to you crashing into something which is why you believe it to be foolish; because you know it would happen. However your belief that faith in God makes sense is only because your brain can't deal with the fact that you can not fully understand the complexity of the physical world around you (and I'm not saying I can either because that would be your first impulsive response to this which of course you will now disagree with in your reply), nor can you truly find a non faith based purpose for your existence in this world therefore your brain tries to find the easiest solution to solve the chaos of this uncertainty (i.e. insert god here). With all that said, I ask you this: Why would a omniscient being such as your god (who is apparently the only one of his species in existence created in the absence of the reality that he supposedly created) be so interested in what happens here on earth that he judges us for our wrongdoings, watch us die of natural disasters, kill ourselves in pointless wars (in which more people have died for religion than any other cause), or even judge us over the fact of whether we believe in him or not? Is life some kind of galactic Jerry Springer show for him? If he was a human being you would consider him an a$$hole. I'm sorry, but if he does exist in any other form but your mind, I'm siding with Lucifer. So come back to me when you have a reply that actually presents a realistic argument other than regurgitating what you were brought up to believe.

Quote:The implication is that the faithful are the "flock" who have to be tended. This is in part inspired by Jesus's injunctions to Peter, "Feed my sheep"

(October 2, 2012 at 1:08 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(October 2, 2012 at 2:59 am)Godschild Wrote: One thing I will say for us Christians we do know better than to drive down the road with our eyes closed

Not been invited to jesus take the wheel day then?

http://www.facebook.com/events/102311426566161/

Jesus take the wheel day was the best random find I had, thanks for the link. We are apparently on the same page.

(October 2, 2012 at 12:50 pm)Darkstar Wrote:

(October 2, 2012 at 2:59 am)Godschild Wrote: Now back to your driving assertion, if I put faith in my ability to drive with my eyes closed I would be foolish, and deserve to have an accident. However to have faith in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God makes complete sense, even if you do not see it that way.

This isn't about faith in your driving skills, but in faith that Jesus will save you from an accident. It would make sense to put faith in an omnipotent omnipresent being, if it existed, but we are asked to have faith that he even exists. How can you do that? How can you just have faith that god or the Flying Spaghetti Monster of the invisible pink unicorn exist?

I was asked if I could have faith in safety, not in God keeping me safe. if I had been asked if I had faith in God keeping me safe as I drive I would say yes, however with my eyes closed, God says not to tempt Him, and it would be foolish of me to close my eyes and tempt God. He might and probably would show me how foolish I would be, BANG. As for my faith in God it has lead me to know Him in a very real way, I know for a fact God is real and the wonderful God He says He is. That very knowledge is what allows me to dismiss the rest of those imaginary beings. Faith is an amazing thing when entrusted toward the truth.

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(October 2, 2012 at 5:40 pm)theeleven Wrote:

(October 2, 2012 at 2:59 am)Godschild Wrote: One thing I will say for us Christians we do know better than to drive down the road with our eyes closed, please let me know when you're going to be driving, you scare me.
Now for the serious side of things, you need to go and study what the shepherds of old were all about, then you might change your mind about why Christ is called our shepherd, probably not, you wouldn't be interested in the truth. I use far more than faith to defend my knowing that Christ is my savior. Now back to your driving assertion, if I put faith in my ability to drive with my eyes closed I would be foolish, and deserve to have an accident. However to have faith in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God makes complete sense, even if you do not see it that way.

Nice try, but you're point is invalid. If you had the ability to rationalize this subject you would understand that putting faith into the ability to drive with your eyes closed would lead to an accident because there can be empirical proof that it would lead to you crashing into something which is why you believe it to be foolish; because you know it would happen. However your belief that faith in God makes sense is only because your brain can't deal with the fact that you can not fully understand the complexity of the physical world around you (and I'm not saying I can either because that would be your first impulsive response to this which of course you will now disagree with in your reply), nor can you truly find a non faith based purpose for your existence in this world therefore your brain tries to find the easiest solution to solve the chaos of this uncertainty (i.e. insert god here). With all that said, I ask you this: Why would a omniscient being such as your god (who is apparently the only one of his species in existence created in the absence of the reality that he supposedly created) be so interested in what happens here on earth that he judges us for our wrongdoings, watch us die of natural disasters, kill ourselves in pointless wars (in which more people have died for religion than any other cause), or even judge us over the fact of whether we believe in him or not? Is life some kind of galactic Jerry Springer show for him? If he was a human being you would consider him an a$$hole. I'm sorry, but if he does exist in any other form but your mind, I'm siding with Lucifer. So come back to me when you have a reply that actually presents a realistic argument other than regurgitating what you were brought up to believe.

Quote:The implication is that the faithful are the "flock" who have to be tended. This is in part inspired by Jesus's injunctions to Peter, "Feed my sheep"

I see by your last quote that you're to lazy to study the ideas of the early shepherds, to bad you might have learned a thing or two. I have lived a great part of my life away from God, I dedicated my life to the world. Now that I have a real knowledgeable relationship with God (something you can not disprove) I can say I see reality as God desires, I'm sorry if that offends you, all I know to say is that it's your fault and not mine. You can contribute more death because of religion and I might be inclined to agree, however you can not contribute most war deaths to Christianity. I can if you like point out an unimaginable number of deaths to atheist and other non believers. This is a discussion we've had many time on this site.

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(October 2, 2012 at 7:14 pm)theeleven Wrote:

(October 2, 2012 at 1:08 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Not been invited to jesus take the wheel day then?

http://www.facebook.com/events/102311426566161/

Jesus take the wheel day was the best random find I had, thanks for the link. We are apparently on the same page.

God protects me every time I go out, I do not need to close my eyes to know this, only foolish and desparate people would even consider such an argument.

(October 3, 2012 at 2:21 am)Godschild Wrote: Now that I have a real knowledgeable relationship with God (something you can not disprove) I can say I see reality as God desires,

How can you be completely sure that it's not all in your head?

Godschild Wrote:Now that I have a real knowledgeable relationship with God (something you can not disprove) I can say I see reality as God desires

It doesn't matter if we can't disprove your "real knowledgeable relationship" with god, it matters if you can prove it.