(October 3, 2012 at 2:21 am)Godschild Wrote: God protects me every time I go out, I do not need to close my eyes to know this, only foolish and desparate people would even consider such an argument.

Well, there you have it. If a believer ever dies in a car accident, voila! god disproven!

(October 3, 2012 at 12:08 pm)Darkstar Wrote:

(October 3, 2012 at 2:21 am)Godschild Wrote: God protects me every time I go out, I do not need to close my eyes to know this, only foolish and desparate people would even consider such an argument.

Well, there you have it. If a believer ever dies in a car accident, voila! god disproven!

I did not say God protects you or any number of others, I ask for His protection, if you die in a car wreck, voila! there your proof of God will be.

(October 3, 2012 at 2:21 am)Godschild Wrote:

(October 2, 2012 at 12:50 pm)Darkstar Wrote: This isn't about faith in your driving skills, but in faith that Jesus will save you from an accident. It would make sense to put faith in an omnipotent omnipresent being, if it existed, but we are asked to have faith that he even exists. How can you do that? How can you just have faith that god or the Flying Spaghetti Monster of the invisible pink unicorn exist?

I was asked if I could have faith in safety, not in God keeping me safe. if I had been asked if I had faith in God keeping me safe as I drive I would say yes, however with my eyes closed, God says not to tempt Him, and it would be foolish of me to close my eyes and tempt God. He might and probably would show me how foolish I would be, BANG. As for my faith in God it has lead me to know Him in a very real way, I know for a fact God is real and the wonderful God He says He is. That very knowledge is what allows me to dismiss the rest of those imaginary beings. Faith is an amazing thing when entrusted toward the truth.

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(October 2, 2012 at 5:40 pm)theeleven Wrote: Nice try, but you're point is invalid. If you had the ability to rationalize this subject you would understand that putting faith into the ability to drive with your eyes closed would lead to an accident because there can be empirical proof that it would lead to you crashing into something which is why you believe it to be foolish; because you know it would happen. However your belief that faith in God makes sense is only because your brain can't deal with the fact that you can not fully understand the complexity of the physical world around you (and I'm not saying I can either because that would be your first impulsive response to this which of course you will now disagree with in your reply), nor can you truly find a non faith based purpose for your existence in this world therefore your brain tries to find the easiest solution to solve the chaos of this uncertainty (i.e. insert god here). With all that said, I ask you this: Why would a omniscient being such as your god (who is apparently the only one of his species in existence created in the absence of the reality that he supposedly created) be so interested in what happens here on earth that he judges us for our wrongdoings, watch us die of natural disasters, kill ourselves in pointless wars (in which more people have died for religion than any other cause), or even judge us over the fact of whether we believe in him or not? Is life some kind of galactic Jerry Springer show for him? If he was a human being you would consider him an a$$hole. I'm sorry, but if he does exist in any other form but your mind, I'm siding with Lucifer. So come back to me when you have a reply that actually presents a realistic argument other than regurgitating what you were brought up to believe.

I see by your last quote that you're to lazy to study the ideas of the early shepherds, to bad you might have learned a thing or two. I have lived a great part of my life away from God, I dedicated my life to the world. Now that I have a real knowledgeable relationship with God (something you can not disprove) I can say I see reality as God desires, I'm sorry if that offends you, all I know to say is that it's your fault and not mine. You can contribute more death because of religion and I might be inclined to agree, however you can not contribute most war deaths to Christianity. I can if you like point out an unimaginable number of deaths to atheist and other non believers. This is a discussion we've had many time on this site.

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(October 2, 2012 at 7:14 pm)theeleven Wrote: Jesus take the wheel day was the best random find I had, thanks for the link. We are apparently on the same page.

God protects me every time I go out, I do not need to close my eyes to know this, only foolish and desparate people would even consider such an argument.

Let me start by saying that you have never offended me just because i disagree with your opinion (This is a discussion forum if I remember correctly), but I truly love how you had no response to most of my statement. What, not enough time to google your way through a decent reply? I'm sorry to tell you that I have studied a little bit on these subjects, I happen to have been an alter server until the age of 12. It was at this point that I started questioning things and questioning the churches beliefs is something they usually frown upon. So I decided to think and act for myself because all I knew up until that point was what I was brought up to believe. This is when I started to think beyond the limitations of one set of strict beliefs. As an atheist do I believe in a god? No. But can I neither disprove one either. I don't let faith dictate my actions, this life is limited so I won't let myself be limited to a specific construct. So.....Yet again you have brought no facts nor anything of value to this reply and are still hung up over this shepherd debate so I now give you this:

"One of the most important occupations recorded in the scriptures is that the shepherd. Although the literal keeping of sheep was not particularly important in itself, attributes of this occupation lend it to be an important symbol. Perhaps the best recognised example of a symbolic shepherd is in the son of God, Jesus. In John 10:11, Jesus spoke of himself, “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.”

Jim Jones died for his sheep and so did Marshall Applewhite. They had faith in their beliefs as well so based on your logic, they we're also correct because they believed in what they thought was reality. The bible is a nice collection of fiction with great moral stories designed to keep people in line through fear and less afraid to die in the end. I don't believe I would need to quote Karl Marx here but religion is nothing but a psychological drug that stimulates neurochemicals in your brain just like most pleasurable activities. Reality wasn't constructed by any entity, It's how your brain interprets the world around you. Think of a simple thing such as color. Color does not really exist. It is just different wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum being interpreted by your brain therefore it is not implausible to theorize that my green is your purple. So again, bring something to the table other than your faith, or follow a thread where you would have some actual insight.
Peace be with you!

(October 3, 2012 at 4:56 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(October 3, 2012 at 2:21 am)Godschild Wrote: Now that I have a real knowledgeable relationship with God (something you can not disprove) I can say I see reality as God desires,

How can you be completely sure that it's not all in your head?

I know absolutely that God is real and my savior, that's why a true relationship with Him over time gives me the knowledge of God. So you see I do know things you do not, why do you think I'm so persistent, it's not because I'm crazy.

(October 3, 2012 at 8:01 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(October 3, 2012 at 4:56 am)pocaracas Wrote: How can you be completely sure that it's not all in your head?

I know absolutely that God is real and my savior, that's why a true relationship with Him over time gives me the knowledge of God. So you see I do know things you do not, why do you think I'm so persistent, it's not because I'm crazy.

Yet again, a faith based answer....

No, no..not crazy, that would be an easy excuse. You seem to be something else entirely..

(October 3, 2012 at 8:04 pm)theeleven Wrote:

(October 3, 2012 at 8:01 pm)Godschild Wrote: I know absolutely that God is real and my savior, that's why a true relationship with Him over time gives me the knowledge of God. So you see I do know things you do not, why do you think I'm so persistent, it's not because I'm crazy.

Yet again, a faith based answer....

You may believe it's just faith, and I understand why, because Christianity in your view is to restrictive, so just faith is a way to deny the reality of God. When one truly lives for God in a relationship with Him, one will come to see that what you would call coincidence is actually reality. Coincidence is something that might happen once in awhile. When many of your so called coincidences happen, then it no longer can be a coincidence, luck runs out and reality comes to light. Experiencing God is the only way to be able to know God is real. Faith leads to reality when lived to learn truth.

To the original point, I think it's a false statement in so far as no amount of gullibility will get you into heaven after you've died for the simple reason that heaven is a fairy tail*.

The amount of gullibility to believe in heaven, well that's self evident.



*although apparently fairies go to hell

(October 3, 2012 at 8:01 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(October 3, 2012 at 4:56 am)pocaracas Wrote: How can you be completely sure that it's not all in your head?

I know absolutely that God is real and my savior, that's why a true relationship with Him over time gives me the knowledge of God. So you see I do know things you do not, why do you think I'm so persistent, it's not because I'm crazy.

So it IS all in your head... interesting.

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(October 4, 2012 at 12:08 am)Godschild Wrote:

(October 3, 2012 at 8:04 pm)theeleven Wrote: Yet again, a faith based answer....

You may believe it's just faith, and I understand why, because Christianity in your view is to restrictive, so just faith is a way to deny the reality of God. When one truly lives for God in a relationship with Him, one will come to see that what you would call coincidence is actually reality. Coincidence is something that might happen once in awhile. When many of your so called coincidences happen, then it no longer can be a coincidence, luck runs out and reality comes to light. Experiencing God is the only way to be able to know God is real. Faith leads to reality when lived to learn truth.

Ah.... you attribute your knowledge of god to something other people will dismiss as coincidence.
It's interesting to note that no biblical story claims coincidence.... there's always direct contact with the deity. Why is it that your sole point of contact is coincidental events?
And why would you be the recipient of these lucky coincidences, while millions of others equally devout people get nothing?
Does god have favorites?
Again, my point of view throws this into the realm of "it's all in your head".

(October 4, 2012 at 12:08 am)Godschild Wrote: Coincidence is something that might happen once in awhile. When many of your so called coincidences happen, then it no longer can be a coincidence, luck runs out and reality comes to light.

Hope you don't mind me quoting the meat and not the rice of the statement. So, if I flip a coin 100 times- and 75 times it comes up heads, how many of those instances of heads do you imagine will be magical or driven by the lord almighty?

Quote:Faith leads to reality when lived to learn truth.

Right, ergo Insha'Allah, and Hail Eris. The heavens are a crowded place, made so by all of the gods willed into reality through faith "lived to learn truth".