(October 12, 2012 at 8:22 pm)ronedee Wrote: God made ALL the rules! Look at it this way: We are spiritual seedlings growing to a full reunion with God! Or NOT!

And FREE WILL means it's of our own accord! If we were robots, we would have no choices to be Christian or Atheists!

The Israelites ate food from God in the desert...yet they still fashioned a false god! Does this sound like their one God was making decisions for them?

FREE WILL condemned us from the beginning...but it had to happen that way!

Think about this: How could God possibly give "us" His Divinity w/o having to worship us?

If indeed we can perfect our lives, like & through Jesus' demonstration of Love and Faith without seeing Him...We then become worthy of ALL He has to give us!

"I Hid My Face From Them...For But A Moment."

You do realize that capitalizing 'free will' does not prove it exists, don't you? So, once again, do you have any proof that we have free will?

(October 13, 2012 at 12:49 am)Drich Wrote: Appearently you do not understand either of those faiths. For their gods are unknowable. Their gods do not offer a relationship with any of them. Their God is not offering a literal peice of Himself to instruct and guide them to a full fillment in understanding of Him.

Quite honestly, I'm far more likely to maintain a conversation (ie without looking around for the exit) with a person who merely worships a god or gods, than I am with someone who insists they have a personal, living relationship with one.

(October 13, 2012 at 12:40 am)Drich Wrote: So you sought God as a way to obtain the happiness you thought your friend had?

As I have no real desire to respond point-by-point to all that, I'll say that I certainly did not submit myself to the complete annihilation of self your personal interpretation of God's will demands, and I would never.

What I wanted, really, all I wanted when you boil it down, was a reason to live. What I got from God is a message saying "I couldn't care less".

So, no, I have no desire to ever try again. Your God is not worth even my contempt, let alone devotion. He wasn't there, and had I understood ahead of time that it was because he doesn't exist, I could have saved myself four years of wasted effort.

And, if in spite of all that I'm wrong and he is there, fuck him. I tried as hard as I could short of completely breaking down. If that's what he demands of me, he's a sadistic shit and I want no part of him. I still struggle with these things and probably always will, but all Christianity did was give me more reasons to hate myself, which is the very last thing I need.

(October 13, 2012 at 6:40 am)Tino Wrote:

(October 12, 2012 at 12:38 am)Drich Wrote: This is where you become an ath-tard. What makes You think God is your Father? Creator yes, but as a non believer you are not His son (yet.) It is the start of the process of A/S/K that will eventually have you grafted into the family. Right now you are a tare, a weed, chaff, a goat, in short undesireable. It is the undesireable that will be seperated from those slated to be with God. So don't worry neither God nor bible believeing Christians look at you as a brother/son. That said know the potential is definatly there. It simply depends on your willingness to A/S/K.

Wow. It's religion without the "god loves you" part. Drich, what denomination/church do you represent?

It's a non denominnational faith centered around scripture rather than empty dogma or doctrine.
http://www.harvestbiblechapel.org/

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(October 13, 2012 at 11:39 am)Cinjin Wrote: Seriously, pull your head out of your ass. What dipshit pulpit-thumper told you that bit of bull shit??

The google search you suggested along with one on one studies with muslims and hindus.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=to...93&bih=453

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(October 13, 2012 at 1:29 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(October 13, 2012 at 12:49 am)Drich Wrote: Appearently you do not understand either of those faiths. For their gods are unknowable. Their gods do not offer a relationship with any of them. Their God is not offering a literal peice of Himself to instruct and guide them to a full fillment in understanding of Him.

Quite honestly, I'm far more likely to maintain a conversation (ie without looking around for the exit) with a person who merely worships a god or gods, than I am with someone who insists they have a personal, living relationship with one.

Appearently not. for you seem to be compelled to start a conversation with someone who claims a personal relationship with God.

That said, your choosing wether or to a/s/k for God or even speak to someone who has, is the reason you have been given this life.

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(October 13, 2012 at 1:45 pm)Ryantology Wrote: As I have no real desire to respond point-by-point to all that, I'll say that I certainly did not submit myself to the complete annihilation of self your personal interpretation of God's will demands, and I would never.

What I wanted, really, all I wanted when you boil it down, was a reason to live. What I got from God is a message saying "I couldn't care less".

Maybe that was the problem. You were looking for a 'reason to live this life.' and God was offering a reason to live for eternity.

Quote:So, no, I have no desire to ever try again. Your God is not worth even my contempt, let alone devotion. He wasn't there, and had I understood ahead of time that it was because he doesn't exist, I could have saved myself four years of wasted effort.

It wasn't any more of a waisted effort than anything else you have done to live this life to the fullest. Life (without god) is nothing more than an accumliation of experiences. Good bad or indifferent these experiences make us who we are. and whether you like it or not the 10 years you spent as a member of a social religious group has contributed to your over all personality.

Quote:And, if in spite of all that I'm wrong and he is there, fuck him. I tried as hard as I could short of completely breaking down. If that's what he demands of me, he's a sadistic shit and I want no part of him.

Which is the reason you are here. to make that choice. Good, bad or indifferent.

Quote: I still struggle with these things and probably always will, but all Christianity did was give me more reasons to hate myself, which is the very last thing I need.

If you hate yourself because of christianity then i would say you got ahold of the wrong brand of religion. Because dying to self is only 1/2 of the equasion. Once we die to self then we can adopt the idenity God has set before us. We can obtain value and self worth for doing what it is we were created to do. From this we are held in regaurds to God, and can take pride in the completion of role He has set aside for us.

(October 13, 2012 at 2:17 pm)Drich Wrote: That said, your choosing wether or to a/s/k for God or even speak to someone who has, is the reason you have been given this life.

Not again...
"If you a/s/k for god and don't find him, you're doing it wrong"

Why not "If you a/s/k for god hard enough, you can delude yorself into believing anything"

(October 12, 2012 at 8:22 pm)ronedee Wrote: God made ALL the rules! Look at it this way: We are spiritual seedlings growing to a full reunion with God! Or NOT!

No, god did not make all the rules, in fact god made no rules, but simply making rules does not absolve you from following them, and simply making rules says nothing about whether or not they are "good" rules.

Quote:And FREE WILL means it's of our own accord! If we were robots, we would have no choices to be Christian or Atheists!

I appreciate that you as a catholic have a different opinion as to why people are or are not faithful, understand that your protestant friends disagree with you greatly in this regard...and that the very notion of free will is so ill-defined as to be useless to you in making a point.

Quote:The Israelites ate food from God in the desert...yet they still fashioned a false god! Does this sound like their one God was making decisions for them?

You're asking an atheist what magical food from the heavens sent express mail by god sounds like? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say -sounds like bullshit-.

Quote:FREE WILL condemned us from the beginning...but it had to happen that way!

lol, "free will" followed by "it had to happen that way". I'm guessing the irony will be lost on you.....

Quote:Think about this: How could God possibly give "us" His Divinity w/o having to worship us?

You'll have to reword that into something a sane person could understand before I can respond to whatever you'rte asking.

Quote:If indeed we can perfect our lives, like & through Jesus' demonstration of Love and Faith without seeing Him...We then become worthy of ALL He has to give us!

Which is the sum total of nothing, because you still haven't established that there's a "giver" in the first place.

Quote:"I Hid My Face From Them...For But A Moment."

Meh..if I posted something like this I'd hide my face for a bit longer than a moment.

(October 13, 2012 at 2:34 pm)Darkstar Wrote: Not again...
"If you a/s/k for god and don't find him, you're doing it wrong"

It completely depends on what you a/s/k for. If you a/s/k for what God tells you to a/s/k for then you will get what He has promised.

However if you do it your own way then you will be doing it for a while.

Quote:Why not "If you a/s/k for god hard enough, you can delude yorself into believing anything"

Did you read what you just wrote? If you could fool yourself into anything then no one would ever come out the other end without finding what they sought.

(October 13, 2012 at 3:41 pm)Drich Wrote:

(October 13, 2012 at 2:34 pm)Darkstar Wrote: Not again...
"If you a/s/k for god and don't find him, you're doing it wrong"

It completely depends on what you a/s/k for. If you a/s/k for what God tells you to a/s/k for then you will get what He has promised.

However if you do it your own way then you will be doing it for a while.

Translation: You can have any colour you like, so long as it's black.*

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Yes, I know early Fords were anything but black; however Henry Ford actually did make such a comment, mischievously, in his autobiography.

(October 13, 2012 at 3:59 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(October 13, 2012 at 3:41 pm)Drich Wrote: It completely depends on what you a/s/k for. If you a/s/k for what God tells you to a/s/k for then you will get what He has promised.

However if you do it your own way then you will be doing it for a while.

Translation: You can have any colour you like, so long as it's black.*

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Yes, I know early Fords were anything but black; however Henry Ford actually did make such a comment, mischievously, in his autobiography.

Indeed. The funny thing is 'we' don't know what we want. God does because He created us needing what the Holy Spirit offers. One may not think he needs what God offers, but once you have it all of the pieces fit together and the hole in your heart gets filled. Then contentment and peace follows. all for a/s/k for what God has told you need.

(October 13, 2012 at 5:55 pm)Drich Wrote:

(October 13, 2012 at 3:59 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Translation: You can have any colour you like, so long as it's black.*

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Yes, I know early Fords were anything but black; however Henry Ford actually did make such a comment, mischievously, in his autobiography.

Indeed. The funny thing is 'we' don't know what we want. God does because He created us needing what the Holy Spirit offers. One may not think he needs what God offers, but once you have it all of the pieces fit together and the hole in your heart gets filled. Then contentment and peace follows. all for a/s/k for what God has told you need.

Then Christopher Hitchens' observation still stands: that we were 'created' sick and ordered to be well.