Scum of the earth.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/2012101...58J83.html

Quote:BAMAKO, Mali (AP) - A teenaged girl received 60 lashes in Timbuktu after Islamist extremists convicted her of speaking to men on the street.

The girl, about 15 years old, was allegedly caught standing alongside men by the Islamists of Ansar Dine who now run Timbuktu.

Because with all the problems facing sub-saharan africa this is the kind of silly shit they worry about.

(October 16, 2012 at 3:36 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Scum of the earth.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/2012101...58J83.html

Quote:BAMAKO, Mali (AP) - A teenaged girl received 60 lashes in Timbuktu after Islamist extremists convicted her of speaking to men on the street.

The girl, about 15 years old, was allegedly caught standing alongside men by the Islamists of Ansar Dine who now run Timbuktu.

Because with all the problems facing sub-saharan africa this is the kind of silly shit they worry about.

Yes, I'm right there with you.

and of course not a single western media outlet, and only a japanese paper (modern tokyo times) writes about the flow of saudi and quatar money channeling into wahabi hands in Mali.

http://moderntokyotimes.com/2012/07/02/i...and-qatar/

as soon as the oil is out, they will probably rott in their deserts.

Again, Islam has CURRENTLY in the east far too many ignorant fundies. But when even Pakistani Muslims blast the assasination attempt on Malala for wanting an education, the issue is clear. RELIGION DOES fuck things up. But Islam isn't the only one that retards human progress, even though it currently is behind the times.

Christianity in Europe and the colonies was just as tribal and barbaric "Dark ages" "Iquisition" "witch hunts".. And even in the 60s white Christians justified the murder of blacks. Even today the right wing wants to control the bodies of women and deny gays equal rights.

To me it is fine to go after the barbarism that exists in Islam, but it is not ok to throw out those who support the rights of a girl who wants an education, even if they hold a religious belief, but to say no one in Islam suports her is absurd, otherwise the outrage would not be worldwide. She wouldn't have even gotten to the point of becoming outspoken if everyone in her community, or family taught her to "know her place". Some people arround her taught her to be herself.

Religion, in itself, may or may not condone these barbaric atrocities - though in practise many of them do - however, religion does make justifying them far too easy. It's a perfect umbrella for the criminally and psychopathically despotic (try saying that six times fast).

Quote:Some people arround her taught her to be herself.

Right. They want to kill her father, too.

(October 16, 2012 at 5:08 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Religion, in itself, may or may not condone these barbaric atrocities - though in practise many of them do - however, religion does make justifying them far too easy. It's a perfect umbrella for the criminally and psychopathically despotic (try saying that six times fast).

Many in the west are bent no matter how right on picking on Islam. And as much as I agree that it is a problem, the evolutionary history of humans would dictate that even if Islam were to fall tomorow some new superstition could or would be invented to justify future horrors.

If you look at our entire history of human evolution and credulutity we default far too much to tribalism and wishful thinking in the terms of religion and politics. It allows our species whom would otherwise under other conditions, to murder others who want the same basics we want. "They" is all it takes to justify murder of another human in a world were all humans want the same thing.

I'm an equal rights atheist; I treat all religions with equal contempt (for a given value of 'contempt'. YMMV). Islam, Xtianity, whatever: from my perspective it's all basically the same. If it can be used to protect criminals and/or rationalise their crimes, it's an antisocial and antihuman irrelevance. All else being equal, society would be better off without it.

(October 16, 2012 at 5:41 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'm an equal rights atheist; I treat all religions with equal contempt (for a given value of 'contempt'. YMMV). Islam, Xtianity, whatever: from my perspective it's all basically the same. If it can be used to protect criminals and/or rationalise their crimes, it's an antisocial and antihuman irrelevance. All else being equal, society would be better off without it.

I also am for equal contempt for unproven claims. But other than the same violent force humanity tries to use to push its political and religious utopias on all 7 billion of us, what would you suggest?

I do NOT support her claim that Allah is the one true god. But first and formost she is a human and a human valuing the rights of girls and women. I cannot turn my back on her because of that.

In a utopia we would be better off without religion, but since we do not live in a utopia, nor will any group get a utopia, I suggest we all deal with reality.

I wouldn't presume to suggest anything. I'm not out to change the world to my design, I'm content simply to sit within the limits of my power and make my observations. And we don't need to reach for a utopia to wish to be free of the shackles of religion, it seems to be doing just fine making itself irrelevant all by itself. I chose the phrase "all else being equal" with great care.