(November 5, 2012 at 9:34 am)Kirbmarc Wrote: If a person in a position of power abuses of his power, then yes, he should be judged, no matter how powerful he is.

Judged by whom?

Quote:If a cop shoots a shoplifter, then he needs to be judged, because he used a highly disproportionate amount of force to stop a crime. If a judge sentences a burglar to death, he needs to judged, because the sentence is far too harsh for the crime. If a soldier shoots a civilian for no reason, he needs to be judged, because he hurt an innocent.

Same question - judged by whom? Also, what if the cop/judge/soldier above complains that the judgment on him was unfair in some way?

Quote:Your god commited genocide. No matter how powerful he is, and no matter what "crime" he was trying to stop, he used an amount of violence disproportonate to anything. And he killed innocents. Why shouldn't we judge him?

When I spray poison on an ant colony and wipe it out, from ants' perspective I've committed genocide. Doesn't bother me.

doesn't mean the ant wouldn't judge you if it had the capacity.

(November 5, 2012 at 10:28 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: doesn't mean the ant wouldn't judge you if it had the capacity.

It might. So what?

Authority figures should be judged by the collective of those they hold authority over. For judges and police, this means the society they serve. For soldiers, this means the military force they serve, which in turn, should be held accountable by the state they are responsible for. +1 for democracy.

(November 5, 2012 at 10:30 am)John V Wrote:

(November 5, 2012 at 10:28 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: doesn't mean the ant wouldn't judge you if it had the capacity.

It might. So what?

So then if they'd have the capacity, they also have the capacity to overrule your decisions or circumvent them, call it bullshit and not follow your 'laws' anymore. Also, I'd be worried that they'd crawl all over you in your sleep and eat you. Either way, you cease to be an authority and instead become more powerful, but much more understood menace.

Say God existed and was merely a more powerful and misunderstood being. Humanity is reaching the point where we're becoming much more cognizant of each other and our place in the universe. If the being existed and committed those atrocities and we found out about it, I almost pity the being.

Quote:Judged by whom?

Quote:Authority figures should be judged by the collective of those they hold authority over. For judges and police, this means the society they serve. For soldiers, this means the military force they serve, which in turn, should be held accountable by the state they are responsible for.

Festive said it better.

Quote:When I spray poison on an ant colony and wipe it out, from ants' perspective I've committed genocide. Doesn't bother me.

So what you're saying is that your god considers us like ants. But ants react against the predators, and they're justified in doing so (prove me wrong if you don't agree). Does this mean that if god exists we have the right to defend against him?

I like this idea.

(November 5, 2012 at 9:21 am)John V Wrote: Should we let convicts, enemy combatants etc. judge and punish judges, soldiers, police, etc.?

Should we let judges, police, and soldiers summarily execute people for not praising them effusively enough at every opportunity?

Your god considers an affront to his vanity a crime and is said to kill almost every creature on earth (not just the offending humans, mind) who were 'guilty' of not loving him enough. In fact, the primary motivation for most of God's crimes is his insatiable need for humanity to debase themselves for his amusement. A judge, police or soldier is ostensibly acting on behalf of the society he represents. God obviously does not care about humans and their society, as he destroys these things purely on whim several times with no thought to innocents caught up in it. He just wants love, and he'll kill everyone if that's what it takes to get it. Christopher Hitches is spot-on in comparing Yahweh to Kim Jong-il in that regard.

That is not being a judge. That is being a self-absorbed psychopath.

I'd add to that - if the judges, police and soldiers were guilty of wrong-doing, then they should be punished. If you ask me, it's the lack of skepticality towards authority figures such as that displayed towards Yahweh that causes a LOT of fucking problems in this world. Judges are humans and subject to bribes, police can be made up of those who like having the power to abuse, and some soldiers just like killing people. Assuming they are any different from you or I because of the uniform is bullshit.

The only thing that makes them any different is how seriously they take their job. I tried very hard as a mod on this site to be fair and much more polite because I took the role seriously. I confess I don't feel the same compunction as a "normal" member of the site now. I don't feel the need to be even-handed or as unbiased. It's not my job. Would our politicians and authority figures could try to separate themselves out and understand that difference in their own roles.

(November 5, 2012 at 7:47 am)Daniel Wrote: "Sometimes he reacts like a furious four-year-old when he does not get things his way"

So, according to that person, Jesus expected to find figs growing in the fig tree out of season?

This is your response to that entire page on Jesus' morality. Some tiny snippet about a furious four-year old?!?

Never mind that you pulled a Drich and completely ignored 99% of it, but then, you follow it up with this final doozy:

Quote:Plus, what four year olds are able to curse a fig tree and in doing so cause it to wither?

O my god. Pathetic. Your god's alleged supernatural abilities has absolutely NOTHING to do with this conversation. You may want to have your IQ checked. I have to ask: Are you required to wear a helmet when you leave the house?

Probably not - it's a nice fishy red herring.