"Do as I say, not as I do" - God

(November 5, 2012 at 9:13 am)Kirbmarc Wrote: Police, judges and soldiers have to abide by rules, and very strict ones at that (at least in a free country). And we, as citizens, can judge judges, soldiers and police according to their moral behavior.

The criminals and convicts cannot judge them. Actually, they can judge themall they like, but they can't enforce their judgments.

Should we let convicts, enemy combatants etc. judge and punish judges, soldiers, police, etc.?

(November 5, 2012 at 9:21 am)John V Wrote:

(November 5, 2012 at 9:13 am)Kirbmarc Wrote: Police, judges and soldiers have to abide by rules, and very strict ones at that (at least in a free country). And we, as citizens, can judge judges, soldiers and police according to their moral behavior.

The criminals and convicts cannot judge them. Actually, they can judge themall they like, but they can't enforce their judgments.

Should we let convicts, enemy combatants etc. judge and punish judges, soldiers, police, etc.?

Don't know much about our judicial system do you??

(November 5, 2012 at 9:22 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Don't know much about our judicial system do you??

Feel free to enlighten me.

(November 5, 2012 at 9:24 am)John V Wrote:

(November 5, 2012 at 9:22 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Don't know much about our judicial system do you??

Feel free to enlighten me.

Don't you read the news??

(November 5, 2012 at 8:37 am)John V Wrote: God's also the ultimate judge. You don't like being judged. You think the punishment is too harsh. No surprise there.

The problem with this judgement is that, as far I'm aware, no one has suffered it. No one has been to that judge and came back. No one.
You may argue: Jesus did.... but isn't jesus the judge himself? Doesn't count, then! We need real people that have been judged and suffered the penalties, or made it through.
As far as I'm aware, no one has ever come back. No one can claim to know what it's like.
No one.

Also:
What are the rules we have to abide to pass this judgement?
*Kill people who work on Saturdays?
*Kill people who are in the places we'd like to settle?
*Force a raped woman into marrying her raper?
*Do not murder?
*Do not covet the neighbor's ox?
*anything missing here?...

Quote:Should we let convicts, enemy combatants etc. judge and punish judges, soldiers, police, etc.?

If a person in a position of power abuses of his power, then yes, he should be judged, no matter how powerful he is.

If a cop shoots a shoplifter, then he needs to be judged, because he used a highly disproportionate amount of force to stop a crime. If a judge sentences a burglar to death, he needs to judged, because the sentence is far too harsh for the crime. If a soldier shoots a civilian for no reason, he needs to be judged, because he hurt an innocent.

Your god commited genocide. No matter how powerful he is, and no matter what "crime" he was trying to stop, he used an amount of violence disproportonate to anything. And he killed innocents. Why shouldn't we judge him?

(Assuming, of course, that he exists and that he's not just a convenient excuse to justify a genocide committed by "his people").

(November 5, 2012 at 9:31 am)pocaracas Wrote: The problem with this judgement is that, as far I'm aware, no one has suffered it. No one has been to that judge and came back. No one.
You may argue: Jesus did.... but isn't jesus the judge himself? Doesn't count, then! We need real people that have been judged and suffered the penalties, or made it through.

Why?

Quote:Also:
What are the rules we have to abide to pass this judgement?
*Kill people who work on Saturdays?
*Kill people who are in the places we'd like to settle?
*Force a raped woman into marrying her raper?
*Do not murder?
*Do not covet the neighbor's ox?
*anything missing here?...

If you're a jew, there are 613 points to the law. If you're a gentile, there are traditionally seven points to the Noahide law if you'd like to follow them. Alternatively you can just follow your own code. Whichever you choose you'll end up guilty.

(November 4, 2012 at 11:55 pm)Drich Wrote:

(November 4, 2012 at 10:49 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: You're a walking Special Pleading billboard.

I bet you are one of those people who shout at the movie screen in a crowed theather.

What happened to you just eating your popcorn and observing?

Not at all, Peach. When I walk into a movie, I know I'm going in there for fiction. When you're writing, even though I have a hard time not thinking you're a Poe, I have to realize that you believe what you're saying. So I call it like I see it, like I do anywhere else in reality.

What's wrong - can't stand having someone come in and do just that - call it like they see it? I'm under no obligation to just sit back and let you spew your shit everywhere without commenting, much as you might prefer all of us to do that.

(November 5, 2012 at 9:44 am)John V Wrote:

(November 5, 2012 at 9:31 am)pocaracas Wrote: The problem with this judgement is that, as far I'm aware, no one has suffered it. No one has been to that judge and came back. No one.
You may argue: Jesus did.... but isn't jesus the judge himself? Doesn't count, then! We need real people that have been judged and suffered the penalties, or made it through.

Why?

Imagine there's this place that you know that if you go there, you don't come back. Let's call it deathville.

On the rest of the world, no one knows what happens in deathville. They just know that no one ever comes back.
Some people hypothesize that it has a ruling body with some sort of council, others hypothesize that it has a king and some powerful sidekicks; other hypothesize that it only has one judge who judges everyone that goes there, based on the fact that they are people coming from somewhere else (there's no maternity in deathville). He then proceeds to attribute lodging to the incoming individuals.
the hypotheses are abundant, but no certainties exist.

How these hypotheses come about is a very interesting subject of psychology... study it.


One day, this judge comes into the outer world and says some banalities about his deathville. Some guidelines for the people to obey. Apparently, he god fed up with too many people who got lousy apartments and no one for the mansions he'd put so much effort into building.
And then he goes back to deathville and never returns.

The people in the rest of the world have then two choices, or follow those rules, or ignore them (here, I use the word ignore in both the "I never heard it" and the "I don't care about it" sense).

Smells like Pascal's wager.

Then you get the question: was that guy really the judge?, could he just be some one else that came out of deathville? Could he just be someone from our world posing as a deathviller? This last one seems very likely, since clearly no one ever returns from deathville, so this guy couldn't have possibly come from there.

This is why Jesus doesn't count!

(November 5, 2012 at 9:44 am)John V Wrote:

Quote:Also:
What are the rules we have to abide to pass this judgement?
*Kill people who work on Saturdays?
*Kill people who are in the places we'd like to settle?
*Force a raped woman into marrying her raper?
*Do not murder?
*Do not covet the neighbor's ox?
*anything missing here?...

If you're a jew, there are 613 points to the law. If you're a gentile, there are traditionally seven points to the Noahide law if you'd like to follow them. Alternatively you can just follow your own code. Whichever you choose you'll end up guilty.

So I'll end up in the apartments of deathville, instead of a mansion. And you too, and everyone else in the world. What's the use, then?