(November 5, 2012 at 3:46 pm)Tino Wrote:

(November 5, 2012 at 3:19 pm)whateverist Wrote: Tino, tell me, how do you sleep at night as a conservative?

I have the poor people lie down on the floor, usually 5 or 6 in a row, and then put the box spring on top of them, then the mattress, then me.

(November 5, 2012 at 3:19 pm)whateverist Wrote: All for the sake of voting for someone who will help you to keep more of what's yours while turning a blind eye to the needs of society as a whole. It is clearly an issue of values not smarts. But how to hell did your values get so fucked up?

Yes I can feel your rage building. If I disagree with you politically it must be that there's something wrong with my values.

I don't know, I think it is a legit question. I won't condemn you over it, it is your life, but I also wonder how any atheist in America could possibly chose to vote Republican right now. Other conservative or 3rd party groups? Sure, I get that. But Republicans? They have become a front for Christian Dominionist (not even a veiled front anymore, they pretty much admit it outright now) who are all for turning this country into a theocracy. It's like shooting yourself in the foot. Or, considering what other theocracies do to atheists, just shooting yourself.

(November 5, 2012 at 3:55 pm)Aroura Wrote: I don't know, I think it is a legit question. I won't condemn you over it, it is your life, but I also wonder how any atheist in America could possibly chose to vote Republican right now.

Obama just hasn't been an effective leader, and I no longer believe that his vision of America is my vision of America.

(November 5, 2012 at 3:55 pm)Aroura Wrote: Other conservative or 3rd party groups? Sure, I get that. But Republicans? They have become a front for Christian Dominionist (not even a veiled front anymore, they pretty much admit it outright now) who are all for turning this country into a theocracy. It's like shooting yourself in the foot. Or, considering what other theocracies do to atheists, just shooting yourself.

First off, I identify as a conservative, not as a republican. I don't vote republican unless I'm satisfied with the conservative qualities of their candidate (eg I voted Obama in 08 and Perot in 92.)

I don't accept that being an atheist dictates anything about politics. The alliance between the republican party and the religious right is simply one of capturing a voting bloc. It is no more or less cynical than the way that the democrat party aligns with many special interest groups simply to capture them as a voting bloc. There are plenty of religious believers in the democrat party.

(November 5, 2012 at 4:39 pm)Tino Wrote:

(November 5, 2012 at 3:55 pm)Aroura Wrote: I don't know, I think it is a legit question. I won't condemn you over it, it is your life, but I also wonder how any atheist in America could possibly chose to vote Republican right now.

Obama just hasn't been an effective leader, and I no longer believe that his vision of America is my vision of America.

(November 5, 2012 at 3:55 pm)Aroura Wrote: Other conservative or 3rd party groups? Sure, I get that. But Republicans? They have become a front for Christian Dominionist (not even a veiled front anymore, they pretty much admit it outright now) who are all for turning this country into a theocracy. It's like shooting yourself in the foot. Or, considering what other theocracies do to atheists, just shooting yourself.

First off, I identify as a conservative, not as a republican. I don't vote republican unless I'm satisfied with the conservative qualities of their candidate (eg I voted Obama in 08 and Perot in 92.)

I don't accept that being an atheist dictates anything about politics. The alliance between the republican party and the religious right is simply one of capturing a voting bloc. It is no more or less cynical than the way that the democrat party aligns with many special interest groups simply to capture them as a voting bloc. There are plenty of religious believers in the democrat party.

Of course, there are, but they generally aren't trying to push religion based laws. I guess that's the puzzling part.

Why don't you vote for a 3rd party conservative that isn't part of the religious right control group then? I'm strongly considering voting for Jill Stein myself, especially since I live in a very blue state. I mean, unless you live in Nevada, Ohio or Virginia, your vote probably won't mean squat anyway to Obama or Romney. Isn't there a 3rd party person who represents your views better than Romney? Or is Romney really the closest to your political views right now, especially considering how many of them are religion based?

It's your vote, I'm just trying to understand it.

(November 5, 2012 at 4:48 pm)Aroura Wrote: Why don't you vote for a 3rd party conservative that isn't part of the religious right control group then? I'm strongly considering voting for Jill Stein myself, especially since I live in a very blue state. I mean, unless you live in Nevada, Ohio or Virginia, your vote probably won't mean squat anyway to Obama or Romney. Isn't there a 3rd party person who represents your views better than Romney? Or is Romney really the closest to your political views right now, especially considering how many of them are religion based?

It's your vote, I'm just trying to understand it.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm a raving Romney fan. I think he's just what we need to pull us out of the death-spiral we're in now. As for religious views, I don't care what he thinks about abortion or gay marriage because 1) neither issue is going to be changed at a federal level and 2) I see no inclination by him to push a religious based agenda.

And since I think all religion is crazy I don't see any meaningful difference between Romney's brand of religion and Obama's. They're just magic spells from a different book of incantations.

(November 5, 2012 at 5:03 pm)Tino Wrote: Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm a raving Romney fan. I think he's just what we need to pull us out of the death-spiral we're in now. As for religious views, I don't care what he thinks about abortion or gay marriage because 1) neither issue is going to be changed at a federal level and 2) I see no inclination by him to push a religious based agenda.

And since I think all religion is crazy I don't see any meaningful difference between Romney's brand of religion and Obama's. They're just magic spells from a different book of incantations.

Well....thanks for the clarification!

(November 5, 2012 at 3:46 pm)Tino Wrote: If I disagree with you politically it must be that there's something wrong with my values.

See? Didn't I say you were smart? You make my point.

(November 5, 2012 at 5:03 pm)Tino Wrote: Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm a raving Romney fan. I think he's just what we need to pull us out of the death-spiral we're in now.

Sorry I lost track of this thread. I was paying most of my attention to the debate I was having with Chipan over Jesus and whether or not the Gospels are based on some sort of true story. It seems my opponent has abandoned the debate. So I'm back to this thread.

You'd asked me earlier what I meant by "tax cuts for the wealthy don't work". What I mean is the same thing I mean when I say prayer doesn't work. It doesn't deliver what's promised. According to the theory of trickle down economics, tax cuts are not only supposed to be revenue neutral, they're supposed to spur economic growth and job creation.

W Bush had the most aggressive tax cuts for the wealth and decisively the worst record of job growth going back 60 years. The field tests don't conform to the theory. As for the revenue neutral part, you've cited some numbers that looked like a positive case but I wonder why Reagan tripled the debt while W Bush doubled it.

As for the death spiral, that started under W Bush and we are pulling out of it now under Obama. The current president saved us from economic collapse, rescued the auto industry and turned what might have been another Great Depression into a sluggish recovery. Romney is going to take us back to the policies that caused the crash in the first place.