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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:06 pm
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2012 at 5:07 pm by Darkstar.)
(November 28, 2012 at 5:04 pm)alwayson Wrote: Ok, let me try to explain.
There has to be some relationship between two objects A and B, for B to arise from A.
If B is "other" than A, there is no such relationship.
Thus if you insist on arising from "other", you could have a giraffe arise from a rock. Or from another giraffe...(Oh look! Another case of colonic dyschezia!)
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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:07 pm
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2012 at 5:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Is B "other than" A in any of your examples Alwayson? Can you establish that while remaining consistent with your position of negation? Or do we have to accept that there is an "a" and a "b" already- at the very least? Aren't we willing to entertain the notion that you've simply imputed identities to both a and b that have nothing to do with either a or b? What conclusions can we draw from this about a or b (or their relationship/lack thereof)?
Entertaining the notion of an A and a B, to my mind, is claiming that something like an "identity" exists. We're off to a bad start I suppose.....with respect to the OP.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm by alwayson.)
(November 28, 2012 at 5:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Buddhists seem to like making that claim, they have trouble substantiating it though....
I just gave you 2 concrete examples.
Dawkins is always drawn into a losing argument about the beginning of the universe. Dawkins just says scientists are working on it, which makes western atheists look weak.
Secondly, Dawkins is never able to outright negate God.
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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:12 pm
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2012 at 5:13 pm by Cyberman.)
(November 28, 2012 at 5:04 pm)alwayson Wrote: (November 28, 2012 at 5:01 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Not at all, not in the least, and not in your wildest dreams.
Of course you do.
Not until you, or whoever is making the proposition, demonstrates that "God etc" are things that exist in the first place. Otherwise the only option is to accept the existence of, literally, everything and anything that the human imagination can conjure up; from Ceiling Cat to the Invisible Martian Cheese Bicycles. That way madness waits in eager and hungry anticipation.
(November 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm)alwayson Wrote: Dawkins is always drawn into a losing argument about the beginning of the universe. Dawkins just says scientists are working on it, which makes western atheists look weak.
Because Professor Dawkins is a biologist, not a cosmologist or an astrophysicist. Besides, scientists are working on it.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:13 pm
(November 28, 2012 at 5:12 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Not until you, or whoever is making the proposition, demonstrates that "God etc" are things that exist in the first place.
There is no Creation, and thus no Creator.
Now do you get it?
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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:15 pm
I get it; clearly you don't, since you are answering questions that nobody has asked.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:15 pm
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2012 at 5:19 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm)alwayson Wrote: (November 28, 2012 at 5:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Buddhists seem to like making that claim, they have trouble substantiating it though....
I just gave you 2 concrete examples.
Dawkins is always drawn into a losing argument about the beginning of the universe. Dawkins just says scientists are working on it, which makes western atheists look weak. Concrete? Well I dont know about that.."concrete" things seem to be, to my mind, things that we can claim exist....
Nevertheless, what's weak about saying "we're working on it"? Sounds like a personal value judgement to me...and it's a value judgement I disagree with. "We're working on it" is honesty...honesty is a strong position.
Quote:Secondly, Dawkins is never able to outright negate God.
And?
Whether or not theres a creation has little do do with whether or not anything exists. The word "creation" implies an act...just because I don't believe that the act occurred doesn't automatically mean I have to default to nothing. "No creation" is my position as well btw, I didn't have to resort to nihilism or buddhism to get there though. I like to put the cart -behind the horse-. No creator and thusly no creation, you are clearly free to reverse these if you like.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:17 pm
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2012 at 5:20 pm by Fidel_Castronaut.)
(November 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm)alwayson Wrote: Dawkins is always drawn into a losing argument about the beginning of the universe. Dawkins just says scientists are working on it, which makes western atheists look weak.
Secondly, Dawkins is never able to outright negate God.
1. How does a scientist answering a question honestly (ie "we don't know") tarnish "Western Atheists"? Are you implying scientists and atheists are synonymous? Where did you draw this conclusion from?
2. Why is answering "we don't know" a bad thing? If its a choice between being honest and saying "we don't know" and making shit up, don't you think it's more reasonable to accept that we don't indeed know?
3. Atheists are simply people who lack a belief in a god or gods. That definition is ubiquitous to people all around the world.
4. Have you actually ever read any of Dawkins' books on religion and atheism? He doesn't actually ever attempt to prove god doesn't exist, he simply points out that there's on reason to believe than any sort of god exists (why? EVIDENCE).
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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:18 pm
(November 28, 2012 at 4:41 pm)alwayson Wrote: So basically all you guys got are insults. I take that as victory.
Pigeons and chess everyone, pigeons and chess.
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RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
November 28, 2012 at 5:18 pm
(November 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm)alwayson Wrote: Dawkins is always drawn into a losing argument about the beginning of the universe. Dawkins just says scientists are working on it, which makes western atheists look weak.
Naturally to idiots like you those who make up shit to cover their ignorance is strong, where as those who admits to not knowing, and having admitted it, can actually start to find out, looks weak.
Go fuck yourself. Not as an illusion but shove a real stick up your real ass.
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