(December 3, 2012 at 12:34 am)naimless Wrote: I've never seen a religious person worried about themselves going to hell. They are all going to heaven in their view - if they sin, they just ask for forgiveness or change the rules a little. It's everyone else who sins that is going to hell.

I'm not trying to establish the link. I've monitored my mental health for a while and I have been baffled as to the changes in it. It's actually incredibly simple for me now to make the link between believing in a higher power and achieving more happiness given that I was on and off with the higher power shit and on and off with my depression and the spread was years with the trend mutually exclusive.

I guess that's just what I picked up from the OP. Sounds like you've got it sorted.

In general, I'd say, yes. It has been liberating and a good experience.

(December 3, 2012 at 12:34 am)naimless Wrote: It's actually incredibly simple for me now to make the link between believing in a higher power and achieving more happiness given that I was on and off with the higher power shit and on and off with my depression and the spread was years with the trend mutually exclusive.

Are you saying that as an argument against atheism itself, or merely telling us how you felt mentally and physically while believing in a higher power?

I think that is really interesting, though.

(December 3, 2012 at 1:29 am)Rayaan Wrote:

(December 3, 2012 at 12:34 am)naimless Wrote: It's actually incredibly simple for me now to make the link between believing in a higher power and achieving more happiness given that I was on and off with the higher power shit and on and off with my depression and the spread was years with the trend mutually exclusive.

Are you saying that as an argument against atheism itself, or merely telling us how you felt mentally and physically while believing in a higher power?

I think that is really interesting, though.

I have no argument against atheism - rather people thinking everyone is liberated by it.

I'm just saying, when I had faith, I was at peace. I wish I never had faith in the first place, but because I did, there is something really missing in my mind now that atheism can't fill.

(December 3, 2012 at 1:45 am)naimless Wrote: I'm just saying, when I had faith, I was at peace. I wish I never had faith in the first place, but because I did, there is something really missing in my mind now that atheism can't fill.

Then, that sounds to me as if you're being pulled in two different directions. You're struggling with an inner battle right now.

Try to work it out for yourself somehow that feels best to you. It may not be easy.

(December 3, 2012 at 1:45 am)naimless Wrote: I have no argument against atheism - rather people thinking everyone is liberated by it.

I'm just saying, when I had faith, I was at peace. I wish I never had faith in the first place, but because I did, there is something really missing in my mind now that atheism can't fill.

Of course not everyone feels liberated by it. We are all individuals. What's your point?

Do you think that it is the job of atheism to fill in what you are now missing?

(December 3, 2012 at 2:12 am)Voltron Wrote:

(December 3, 2012 at 1:45 am)naimless Wrote: I have no argument against atheism - rather people thinking everyone is liberated by it.

I'm just saying, when I had faith, I was at peace. I wish I never had faith in the first place, but because I did, there is something really missing in my mind now that atheism can't fill.

Of course not everyone is liberated by it. We are all individuals. What's your point?

Do you think that it is the job of atheism to fill in what you are now missing?

Err to find someone else that isn't liberated by it.

No, but it'd be cool to know I ain't alone in what I feel.

(December 3, 2012 at 2:17 am)naimless Wrote:

(December 3, 2012 at 2:12 am)Voltron Wrote: Of course not everyone is liberated by it. We are all individuals. What's your point?

Do you think that it is the job of atheism to fill in what you are now missing?

Err to find someone else that isn't liberated by it.

No, but it'd be cool to know I ain't alone in what I feel.

Well with all of the flavors out there, I am sure you will find someone who feels very similar. I wish I could chat longer, gotta be to work early. Good night naimless.

I don't find it liberating in and of itself. It is what it is.

It sounds to me like you're having some kind of existential crisis. If that's the case, I can assure you that you are not alone. Therapy might help, I personally find it it to be.

I don't think atheism would have any 'flavor' at all if people had not first felt bound by Christianity or some other theism. It is in relationship to a dogma that some people fine atheism liberating. Remember, atheism isn't so much anything in particular as it is not something.

It isn't a substitute unified story intended to provide meaning and purpose to ordinary lives. What atheism is is an opportunity to get on with it without illusion, as a peer a realm in which there is nothing higher than a peer. If that won't do you shouldn't have let go of theism.

If you're really suffering, do see a therapist or a doctor and find out what can be done.

(December 3, 2012 at 3:05 am)whateverist Wrote: What atheism is is an opportunity to get on with it without illusion, as a peer a realm in which there is nothing higher than a peer. If that won't do you shouldn't have let go of theism.

With the greatest respect, it isn't like I can unsee what I have seen. I am intelligent enough to comprehend science, evolution and atheism and I have logically concluded it is our best current guess.

Perhaps I have an existential intelligence that Dawkins can't comprehend.