So you just want to know if someone else was miserable after the wool was pulled away from their eyes?

Or are you looking for an excuse to rail at Dawkins?

"Conversion" to atheism is just like "conversion" to religion, in my view: it does nothing to remove any ongoing psychological problems you might have. Unless, of course, the atheism or the religion was the direct *cause* of those problems. (I think religion has the stronger track record in this respect, by a long shot.)

I'm glad that, as an atheist, I don't have to think about all kinds of extraneous nonsense when making life decisions--like, will God approve of me having sex before marriage? or, what does the Bible/Koran/Tipitaka have to say about my love for cold vodka? I just junk all of that and think more about the consequences of my actions--which religious people have to do as well, but with all this other irrelevant baggage attached to it. Sometimes theology provides some interesting answers to personal questions, but usually it's just outdated or complete rubbish. Why clutter your mind with it?

I suppose when I become the archetypal "angry atheist" it is usually because someone is insisting I have to start considering these things again when making life decisions, or debating some joint decision. It feels like a massive waste of time and energy, and nothing ever comes of it except resentments and irreconcilable differences. Why bother? In that sense, being an atheist was liberating for me, personally.

Good luck, but don't expect religion or atheism to solve your problems. You have to do it on your own (with help from your friends).

Z

(December 2, 2012 at 11:55 pm)naimless Wrote: Hello, you voluptuous ragamuffins,

I was watching a lot of Richard Dawkins videos on YouTube recently. He says many things that I find impossible to disagree with. I'm sure you all have had similar experiences, perhaps with Hitchens, maybe even Hicks, Carlin...

Nevertheless, one thing Dawkins mentions is receiving messages from people thanking him for liberating them. Indeed, it baffles me how he sees atheism as a good thing for somebody who had faith to discover.

I am an atheist because it is the most harsh and universal truth I've found, not because it is a good or liberating experience. Indeed, my most euphoric and liberating experience came from believing in karma and Buddhist philosophy utilising things like meditation and lucid dreams (around the age of 15-17).

Even up to around the age of 10 I was raised Christian and happy that I had a higher power in stages 1-2 of Dawkins' scale. As I am now nearing stage 7, quite frankly I can't sleep at night, I don't eat properly, I don't exercise enough any more, I have panic attacks, pains in my neck, migraines, flashing vision etc. and I have little self-esteem or genuine feeling of empathy or compassion for others.

Honestly the main thoughts that go through my head now are, "if I had a gun, I could blow my head off".

religion is a drug.

essentially, you're saying you just quit using heroin, and now you feel bad, but since you felt good using heroin, your thinking about using it again.

(December 2, 2012 at 11:55 pm)naimless Wrote: Hello, you voluptuous ragamuffins,

I was watching a lot of Richard Dawkins videos on YouTube recently. He says many things that I find impossible to disagree with. I'm sure you all have had similar experiences, perhaps with Hitchens, maybe even Hicks, Carlin...

Nevertheless, one thing Dawkins mentions is receiving messages from people thanking him for liberating them. Indeed, it baffles me how he sees atheism as a good thing for somebody who had faith to discover.

I am an atheist because it is the most harsh and universal truth I've found, not because it is a good or liberating experience. Indeed, my most euphoric and liberating experience came from believing in karma and Buddhist philosophy utilising things like meditation and lucid dreams (around the age of 15-17).

Even up to around the age of 10 I was raised Christian and happy that I had a higher power in stages 1-2 of Dawkins' scale. As I am now nearing stage 7, quite frankly I can't sleep at night, I don't eat properly, I don't exercise enough any more, I have panic attacks, pains in my neck, migraines, flashing vision etc. and I have little self-esteem or genuine feeling of empathy or compassion for others.

Honestly the main thoughts that go through my head now are, "if I had a gun, I could blow my head off".

All it seems to me that you are saying is that not believing in god makes you unhappy, which of course daniel loves...

No easy solution here and I suspect you are thinking of going back to religion to soothe your fears. Maybe you should if you are so weak minded, you'll find plenty of equally scared and weak minded individuals there who you can identify with.

But you already know, that's not going to make any of it true.

Nobody ever said the truth of a matter has to be palatable.

---

(December 3, 2012 at 2:17 am)naimless Wrote: Err to find someone else that isn't liberated by it.

No, but it'd be cool to know I ain't alone in what I feel.

OK, I can't say that atheism has been a "liberating" experience for me either but I am what I am and that is an absolute non believer, in fact I'm very, very anti-religion these days. There is just no way that this bullshit is true, no way, and even if I felt that believing it would make me happier I couldn't do it.

Fortunately I'm in a good place mentally and within my life. I know my place in society and within my family, I'm satisfied with my lot. I realise I've only got one shot and could die at any time, live each day as well as you can.

But was becoming atheist liberating? Or Euphoric? Nah, can't say it was. I wasn't brought up with religion rammed down my throat, didn't go to church, was only really exposed at school, and frankly by the time I was 9 or 10, I just couldn't accept it and knew I didn't believe. I didn't feel euphoric about it, I felt scared. Scared that the reality was I was going to die one day, stay dead forever and not even know that I even lived. Scared that people could do anything they liked with no devine retribution...let's face it, people if they are bad will take their chance avoiding the human justice system...but WHY DO WE even have a justice system at all? Because deep down we all KNOW it's BULLSHIT, and that NO FUCKER is going to hell no matter what they've done, so we better make sure they pay in this life.

Oops, went off on a tangent there.

(December 2, 2012 at 11:55 pm)naimless Wrote:

---

Hello, you voluptuous ragamuffins,

I was watching a lot of Richard Dawkins videos on YouTube recently. He says many things that I find impossible to disagree with. I'm sure you all have had similar experiences, perhaps with Hitchens, maybe even Hicks, Carlin...

Nevertheless, one thing Dawkins mentions is receiving messages from people thanking him for liberating them. Indeed, it baffles me how he sees atheism as a good thing for somebody who had faith to discover.

I am an atheist because it is the most harsh and universal truth I've found, not because it is a good or liberating experience. Indeed, my most euphoric and liberating experience came from believing in karma and Buddhist philosophy utilising things like meditation and lucid dreams (around the age of 15-17).

Even up to around the age of 10 I was raised Christian and happy that I had a higher power in stages 1-2 of Dawkins' scale. As I am now nearing stage 7, quite frankly I can't sleep at night, I don't eat properly, I don't exercise enough any more, I have panic attacks, pains in my neck, migraines, flashing vision etc. and I have little self-esteem or genuine feeling of empathy or compassion for others.

Honestly the main thoughts that go through my head now are, "if I had a gun, I could blow my head off".

---

Being an atheist in itself, provides no help in personal happiness, so its rather pointless to ascribe to it a reason for your own personal unhappiness.

You should seek a good technician for a proper diagnosis on that lack of appetite, panic attacks, etc, because to be honest, self diagnosis or seeking it online isn't really a way that will solve anything, it may perhaps even make it worse.

At any rate, I would recommend you to read Carlo Strenger's "Fear of insignificance", a good book that makes a compelling thesis on the problems that affect the post-modern human being. Do note however, that this won't substitute a proper technician therapy.

Well, when I first admitted to myself that I didn't really believe in God, I had an immediate horror of the situation. I sunk into a depression for about two weeks where I cried every day, experienced panic attacks and generally believed that being a human being was an utter curse if all we were going to do was vanish without trace. I went to the doctor first of all, which I would urge you to do. He diagnosed me as despressive and gave me some beta blockers which helped me to get my physical symptoms under control and think clearly.

Once I was balanced again, I realised that there must be something I wasn't seeing. Lots of other people were happy atheists and I figured they must have some insights that I did not. I read as much as I could about atheism and fear of death and I realised that death was nothing to be afraid of. Yes, it was sad that life was finite but that is what makes it so special. As Dawkins says, we are all exceptionally lucky to have made it down the evolutionary and genetic chain to be here at all! Once I realised that I was free from all the guilt and incertainty that came with religion, I found I felt very liberated indeed. I feel completely free and so much happier now to live my life according to my own path.

So, to answer your question, yes I have been where you are. You need medical assistance to get over it and you need to figure out what it is that makes your life special and meaningful right now. Regardless of whether you believe in God or not, you have to do those things on your own.

(December 3, 2012 at 7:50 am)LastPoet Wrote: Being an atheist in itself, provides no help in personal happiness, so its rather pointless to ascribe to it a reason for your own personal unhappiness.

QFT. Only happiness, not atheism, can make a person happy.

(December 3, 2012 at 9:36 am)overlord fombax Wrote:

(December 3, 2012 at 7:50 am)LastPoet Wrote: Being an atheist in itself, provides no help in personal happiness, so its rather pointless to ascribe to it a reason for your own personal unhappiness.

QFT. Only happiness, not atheism, can make a person happy.

Ja.

Personally, I wasn't any happier as a theist, panthiest, or deist. My life had no map or meaning back then. I have something to work for now, and an immense feeling of luck at being here, so I am 100% happier than I was now that I'm atheist and don't feel the need to wonder if what I'm doing fits into proscribed notions and plans.

Some people ascribe their unhappiness to the fact that they don't follow some made up god. If I can imagine a god, it would not seriously be worried if I worshipped it, making it somehow an universal happiness generator.

Whether it is a liberating experience has all to do with your particular situation. Those who claim to feel liberated as a result of their acceptance of atheism are typically people who either had bad specific experiences which turned them off religion, or were the sort who believed because they think they're supposed to believe and are happy to learn that it's okay not to. It sounds as if you were happy as a believer and that your loss of faith was not something you really wanted to have happen to you.