I've learned to live by a simple maxim since deconverting from all spiritualisms and adopting the atheistic stance:

Hurt me with the truth; don't comfort me with the lie.

You have to be willing to understand that not everything is sunshine and rainbows...that the world isn't made just for you, that you aren't really worth much of anything in the cosmic perspective, and you have to learn to live life for you. These may sound like platitudes but they're pretty much the main hurdles to overcome.

If you need reasons to be compassionate, well...I ruminated on the Golden and Silver rules and realized how, with the grace of Ockham's Razor, they can readily apply to just about anything and everything in applying a good, decent moral code. And humanism is what I used to begin building a sense of enjoyment in the human experience for the experience itself and the pleasure in sharing it with others. Hell, it even advocates wild debauchery like orgies. ;D

There's ways of coping with the sudden void of comfort. You make your own, mainly. And it's a lot more satisfying when you finally start getting it right, you know?

(December 3, 2012 at 1:58 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(December 3, 2012 at 2:12 am)Voltron Wrote: We are all individuals.

I'm not.

What a unique case!

(December 3, 2012 at 4:16 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: So you just want to know if someone else was miserable after the wool was pulled away from their eyes?

Or are you looking for an excuse to rail at Dawkins?

I agree with Dawkins as a de-facto atheist, but his idea that he is liberating people and providing people a good experience by taking away their faith is ludicrous.

I thought it was fairly obvious trusting in a higher power gives you a higher self-esteem. The euphoria I have felt from spirituality is something I haven't been able to get close to through-out my 8 years of agnostic-atheism.

...

As a side note, I'm simply talking about the spirituality of living. I'm a musician and a lyricist and on another forum they seem to understand better what I am referring to. I think it does have a lot to do with this.

...

(December 3, 2012 at 5:28 am)cratehorus Wrote: religion is a drug.

essentially, you're saying you just quit using heroin, and now you feel bad, but since you felt good using heroin, your thinking about using it again.

Yeah you are getting there. I wouldn't say I want to pick up organised religion again, but certainly some vague parts of Buddhist philosophy have stopped me from wanting to blow my head off in the past. I just need a fix of some description, normal life is incredibly boring to experience.

(December 3, 2012 at 1:46 pm)Ryantology Wrote: It sounds as if you were happy as a believer and that your loss of faith was not something you really wanted to have happen to you.

Well yeah... I mean some of the concepts that areas of Buddhist philosophy refer to are beautiful ways to think of the universe, at least metaphorically. But I always felt it had a grasp on physical ideas too; cause and effect. Indeed, I saw no reason for areas of Buddhist philosophy and science to co-exist in the past. The Dalai Lama has a great belief and control of his mind, without the need of drugs.

(December 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm)naimless Wrote: but his idea that he is liberating people and providing people a good experience by taking away their faith is ludicrous.

Perhaps for you, but there are many examples of other people who don't feel as you do. That doesn't make them or you better than each other - it's just a different outcome.

(December 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm)naimless Wrote: I thought it was fairly obvious trusting in a higher power gives you a higher self-esteem.

Not at all. Where on earth would you get that idea?

(December 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm)naimless Wrote: The euphoria I have felt from spirituality is something I haven't been able to get close to through-out my 8 years of agnostic-atheism.

What about spirituality gave you a euphoria?

(December 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm)naimless Wrote: As a side note, I'm simply talking about the spirituality of living.

This?

(December 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm)naimless Wrote: I'm a musician and a lyricist and on another forum they seem to understand better what I am referring to. I think it does have a lot to do with this.

I'm going to have to try and read that later, as it's long, and see why someone who is "gifted" should feel existentialism more keenly than someone who is "normal".


Me personally, I suppose you could call me a sensualist. I revel in being alive as much as I can within the confines of the society we've built. I take pleasure in being alive, because there's always some pleasure to be had in the day. I'm fortunate enough to live in strata of society and a country where there are many pleasures to be had. Whether there's an overarching purpose to my existence or not is up to me, but meanwhile there's so much to enjoy. The sun-bright explosion of sweetness of a southern peach. The complex bitter-sweet astringency of wine. The wet, honey-filled scent of a hybrid-tea rose. The feel of my lover's body coiled around mine on an early Sunday morning, shuttered in from a gentle thunderstorm outside that blows in the scent of ozone and darkness and life-giving rain. The stubborn tenacity of spring arriving every year to paint a riot over the earth. The uncaring seep of water through the rocks beneath our feet, carving out underground cathedrals we'll never see unless we're lucky. The stars we look up to, filled with world unknown - things to strive for like the pioneers of Whitman's poem. None of these require meaning. They just are. And they give rise to more wonder and joy than ever the idea that someone "created" us did. Instead, knowing that all those distant lights we reach for actually created us - that we are, as NDT said, "star stuff" - THAT is the heady euphoria that keeps me running. It doesn't have to be about me, because it IS me.

"I celebrate myself, and sing myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you."

My dear, you can find those sources of self-esteem elsewhere. Religion is an excellent coping mechanism, but it is not the only one.

(December 3, 2012 at 6:02 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote:

(December 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm)naimless Wrote: but his idea that he is liberating people and providing people a good experience by taking away their faith is ludicrous.

Perhaps for you, but there are many examples of other people who don't feel as you do. That doesn't make them or you better than each other - it's just a different outcome.

Indeed, I realise there are many examples of people who don't feel similar to me. Hence why I am interested in finding people who do.

(December 3, 2012 at 6:09 pm)Annik Wrote: My dear, you can find those sources of self-esteem elsewhere.

Where?

I can relate to some of this, as I've experienced deep existential crises without a deity to turn to for the easy answer. I, however, never had god as a source of happiness, as even when I believed in god at a young age, it was never part of my life except for that one hour on Sunday.

The first step is accepting that the burden for finding meaning falls squarely on your shoulders, unless of course you are going to go back to theism. Finding your own meaning seems like a daunting task, but the answer is hidden within you. You like music? Live for it. Make it your passion and reason for living. One of the things that gives me meaning is writing stories, because putting down my ideas on paper makes me feel alive.

Not believing in god does not mean your life has to be meaningless and empty. It does, however, require that you examine your life and determine your own purpose.

(December 3, 2012 at 6:17 pm)naimless Wrote:

(December 3, 2012 at 6:09 pm)Annik Wrote: My dear, you can find those sources of self-esteem elsewhere.

Where?

Well, one of the main reasons religion is a good device is that it provides you with a support group, stress-management and it relieves tension about life's "big questions". There are other types of support groups, other ways to manage stress and the tension relief... That's up to you. However, if you're feeling this bad, I honestly suggest you get in touch with someone who can help you at a more professional capcity.

(December 3, 2012 at 7:18 pm)Faith No More Wrote: The first step is accepting that the burden for finding meaning falls squarely on your shoulders, unless of course you are going to go back to theism. Finding your own meaning seems like a daunting task, but the answer is hidden within you. You like music? Live for it. Make it your passion and reason for living. One of the things that gives me meaning is writing stories, because putting down my ideas on paper makes me feel alive.

Do you write stories for a living?

(December 3, 2012 at 7:37 pm)naimless Wrote: Do you write stories for a living?

How does that make a difference, enjoyment should be the point of living.