(December 6, 2012 at 11:34 am)Greatest I am Wrote: The bible does show his giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world. Strange that that power failed with Job. So much for God's power.

Where and, more importantly, when?

Quote:You are right that Job came out ok in the end but does that justify God or Satan killing all those others who definitely did not come out ok?

How do you know that those killed did not come out OK? Heaven is definitely OK. How do you know Job's children did not end up there?

Quote:You say that God controlled Satan yet this shows the reverse.
"although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause."

I can try to incite you to do something. It's still your choice to do it. If you do, that doesn't indicate I controlled you.

Quote:Do you think it moral to kill or punish someone without cause?

Job did: "The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away;
Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

Quote:But after July 1 1941 a letter was issued to all top Nazi officals that they would have to denounce God and swear aliegance to hitler first..

Have you read what's in the link you posted? He never asked people to "denounce god", just to end their allegiance to any church. Two very different things, my friend. Hitler's regime wasn't atheist. Hitler actually persecuted atheists and freethinkers.

Quote:Job did: "The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away;Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

So Job was happy to psychopath played with his life just to win a bet with the devil.

Quote:Because in the end it served God to do so.

Makes your god something of a cocksucker, eh.


BTW, drippy, you making excuses for a photo of Hitler coming out of a fucking church does not change the fact that Hitler was in the fucking church.

Just where he belongs if you ask me. You guys have a lot in common.




I'll bet you can pull an explanation for this one out of your ass, too.

I thought you were leaving. Don't you ever tell the truth?

(December 6, 2012 at 7:55 pm)Kirbmarc Wrote: So Job was happy to psychopath played with his life just to win a bet with the devil.

Job understood that all the good in his life came from God in the first place.

(December 6, 2012 at 7:47 pm)John V Wrote: How do you know that those killed did not come out OK? Heaven is definitely OK. How do you know Job's children did not end up there?

The (fairy tale)ends justify the(fairy tale) means do they? Howsabout we decided to forfeit your life, as a means of testing a second party, to prove a point to a third party (which we were already well aware of)? Sound kosher? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it doesn't. That's the whole fucking point of fiction like this John, to experience something vicariously (especially those things which you would not endure- or could not endure). Sigh........can't even appreciate their own goddamned stories....

Quote:Job did: "The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away;
Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

Sounds like Job was a fucking moron. You looking to follow in his footsteps?

Quote:Job understood that all the good in his life came from God in the first place.

It doesn't matter. If, when you were little, your father beat you within an inch of your life to win a bet with a friend of his, and then brought you to Disneyland, he still would have been an abusive father, even if he was the source of your well-being in the first place.

What you are basically saying is that people are puppets in god's hands, and that he can do to them whatever he wants, and they just have to accept it. I think this the character "god", if described in this way, is one of the most repulsive characters ever invented, and I don't see why a rational, sensitive person would worship him if he believed he existed.

Just remember that satan pwned god in the very first chapter of the bible and has continued to make him look a fool ever since.

(December 7, 2012 at 5:52 am)Kirbmarc Wrote: It doesn't matter.

I disagree.

Quote:If, when you were little, your father beat you within an inch of your life to win a bet with a friend of his, and then brought you to Disneyland, he still would have been an abusive father, even if he was the source of your well-being in the first place.

It wasn't Job's father and a friend, it was God and Satan.

Quote:What you are basically saying is that people are puppets in god's hands, and that he can do to them whatever he wants, and they just have to accept it.

Pretty much, although the Biblical analogy is usually clay in a potter's hands.

Quote:I think this the character "god", if described in this way, is one of the most repulsive characters ever invented, and I don't see why a rational, sensitive person would worship him if he believed he existed.

That's your shortcoming. I can understand why you don't worship him.

Quote:It wasn't Job's father and a friend, it was God and Satan

The main difference being?

Quote:Pretty much, although the Biblical analogy is usually clay in a potter's hands.

So if I invented an artificial intelligence I would be free to do to him whatever I want.

Quote:That's your shortcoming. I can understand why you don't worship him.

If failing to worship a psychopath who plays with the lives of innocent people to win a bet is a shortcoming, I'm proud of this shortcoming. I'd be interested in your reading your assumptions of my reasons for not worshipping this repulsive jerk, but I'm sure that you would just say that I'm either too dumb to understand your point (and this, my friend, is blatantly untrue: what you are saying amounts to "might makes right", it's not that difficult to understand even for my limited intellect) or that I'm inherently evil (because I don't kiss the ass of a genocide dictactor who torments an innocent for kicks).

(December 6, 2012 at 7:55 pm)Kirbmarc Wrote: Have you read what's in the link you posted? He never asked people to "denounce god", just to end their allegiance to any church. Two very different things, my friend. Hitler's regime wasn't atheist. Hitler actually persecuted atheists and freethinkers.

from the letter:
" I ask you to inform me immediately if you and your family have any commitment to a church or church-related organization, alongside your commitment to the Führer’s worldview.

If yes, I ask you to tell me if and when you intend to voluntarily [the word “voluntarily” is inserted in the otherwise typed copy here] break that commitment.
A political leader and propagandist may have no other commitment, if he wants to be an honest National Socialist, than that to the Führer and the party.

He and his family must serve the German people and its Führer without any reservations, and trust him absolutely...."

Even if the Term "denounce God" is not used this action of demanding that one put Hitler's World view above that of God is denouncing God by action. For if Hitler comes first then when ever his "morality" strays away from God's, the the Nazi party leader is to follow Hilter and not God. For example: Oh I don't know lets say in a couple months hitler decides to kill millions of Jews, that sort of thing. a Person who 'morals' were tied to his culture to his "Führer without any reservations." Then doing something like killing millions of people becomes a "Moral obligation."

But when you are still bound by the 'morality' one builds based on the Laws of the God of the Bible, then it become a conflict as The Kreisleiter who was conscripted to write this letter no doubt understood.

Quote:So Job was happy to psychopath played with his life just to win a bet with the devil.

Keep Reading. He was not happy with the circumstance, but He still honored God's right to do what He willed. (for a long while.)