And you use identical aesthetics to me. You don't have an intellectual take on the religious aspect through choice.

We're talking of meaning here. Which I will assume is entirely subjective until I know of any reason to believe that there is any objective reasoning in the universe.

I'm expressing the fact that for me atheism is more meaningful for my own personal reasons given above. I accept that there will, of course, be those who disagree with me.

EvF

But all you are doing is ending up with one less expression of wonder than me.

Your atheism lets you ignore the theological. My Theology permits fully my naturalistic view to fully match yours.

Everything is subjective

(October 15, 2009 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: But all you are doing is ending up with one less expression of wonder than me.

Your atheism lets you ignore the theological. My Theology permits fully my naturalistic view to fully match yours.

Everything is subjective

Except God, Truth, Morals, and Sheep right?

Rhizo

(October 15, 2009 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: But all you are doing is ending up with one less expression of wonder than me.

That's your opinion. In my opinion, theism - and even deism - demeans nature by thinking it needs extra - and then lacks any support to how its arguments are valid. To me it's just a load of made up nonsense that trivialized the beauty of true reality and gets in the way.

Considering my different worldview - and even just the simple fact that we are two different people - our opinions are bound to differ.

But 'meaning' is a subjective matter, that's my point.

Quote:Your atheism lets you ignore the theological. My Theology permits fully my naturalistic view to fully match yours.

Well theology doesn't do any such thing in my view you see, because - at least insofar as I can tell - it doesn't have any substance to it, and so is a load of made up nonsense that gets in the way and trivializes nature and true reality as it really is, as I said.

Quote:Everything is subjective

To those who are subjects, to physical agents, to sentient beings, etc - Yes. Your point being? Doesn't that simply add to my point that what is 'meaningful' here is a subjective matter and not something that can be logically argued? Just as one can't logically provide evidence of why one piece of music or one piece of art is all over 'better'.

EvF

Absolutely not Evie. How do you know I don't appreciate nature as much as you??? Can you see into my brain again? YOU cannot separate your stupid god idea with nature - I can.

Theology is intellectual consideration and realisation of harmony in that. You deny the beginning to considering that.

The meaning of anything to us is subjective, be that nature or theological ideas.

(October 15, 2009 at 7:54 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Absolutely not Evie. How do you know I don't appreciate nature as much as you??? Can you see into my brain again? YOU cannot separate your stupid god idea with nature - I can.

I never said any such thing. I said the exact opposite, I said you can. Strawman.

Quote:Theology is intellectual consideration and realisation of harmony in that. You deny the beginning to considering that.

Because I know of no substance to it.

Quote:The meaning of anything to us is subjective, be that nature or theological ideas.

Entirely my point. That's why what is meaningful is a matter of opinion, and why my original post on this thread expressing my views, were stated to be my own personal feelings of what is meaningful to me. Or IOW: How 'I see it'.

EvF

You both should read the Necronomicon (Simon "translation")

Then you could see the world for the horror that it really is! There is a crawling chaos, Nyarlathotep, who is the emissary for the blind idiot God, Azagthoth, who writhes in the center of the universe casting material objects away from him and devouring any of them that get too close to Him. Draw closer to thee? Fuck no! God will eat me!

Rhizo

LOL @ Rhiz

It's a strawman to you Evie because you choose to shut your eyes to a simple statement. What I meant was that you interpret 'my belief' as having to intrude onto my view of the physical reality which Christians here tell you is false.

THERE CAN BE NO FFF... SUBSTANCE!!!

Yeah, and now you accept that it's all subjective, perhaps you might be open to my point?

I said that you can find meaning and appreciate nature just as much as I can. So what are you talking about?

If it's all subjective that doesn't mean there can't be anything objective. Subjectivity is built up of a consensus, and is substantiated through evidence, etc.

EvF