Are you saying that sexuality one way or the other is a sliding scale and that we're all bi?

By the way I know quite a few gay christians.

Also, in my experience, sixth form/year 12/13 17/8yr olds are socially biased towards homosexuality. It's quite the fashion at that age, and a lot of people come out. A stark contrast to the bigoted attitude of younger kids.

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(February 19, 2013 at 7:21 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Are you saying that sexuality one way or the other is a sliding scale and that we're all bi?

Sure it's a sliding scale. Bi is a point down the scale somewhere I think.

I liked this TV series a UK xtian minister did... One group of male monks he visited openly cuddled each other in bed. They just felt the need and did it. He was shocked, and then openly in awe of their openness and innocence.

(February 19, 2013 at 7:21 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Are you saying that sexuality one way or the other is a sliding scale and that we're all bi?

Yes, that seems to fit reality better.

Hmm.
How do you account for gay or lesbians that refuse heterosexual relations completely, then?
Or for straight individuals who absolutely refuse the idea of homosexual relations?

I think those people fool themselves

(February 19, 2013 at 7:41 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Hmm.
How do you account for gay or lesbians that refuse heterosexual relations completely, then?
Or for straight individuals who absolutely refuse the idea of homosexual relations?

They're well to one end of the spectrum. Considering differences between cultures, it seems unlikely such refusal is determined at birth.

Quote:By the way I know quite a few gay christians.

Also, in my experience, sixth form/year 12/13 17/8yr olds are socially biased towards homosexuality. It's quite the fashion at that age, and a lot of people come out. A stark contrast to the bigoted attitude of younger kids.

Where I live, which is almost completely Christian belief oriented: if you're gay you're an abomination. They're beat the fuck up, here. Hence the gay men I know portray themselves as straight in public. Granted, that's just the state I live in and for the most part I grew up in small towns. Adult's attitudes translate to kids' attitudes, and bigotry though. I was afraid to ask a girl out because I was concerned her parents would sever our friendship completely and then tell my parents which would've been just horrible. I had to constantly reinforce my 'boy crushes' to my friends so they wouldn't label me a 'lesbo' and send me off to the 'dyke' table, where I didn't fit in at all (I hated sports). Boys got it worse, they were called faggot even if they were openly straight yet had feminine character isms. It was like animalistic how the 'weak' males got picked on mercilessly. There was definitely an environment of condemnation, and ALL my friends or people in high school that I knew, didn't come out until out of high school. I am happy that things are getting better, but I doubt they're bigot free on the subject, so long as religion teaches it's an abomination and un natural. News flash to those guys: 1500 animal species have been identified as being homogeneous. Even gut worms. Animals without emotive stimuli.

(February 19, 2013 at 7:49 pm)John V Wrote: They're well to one end of the spectrum. Considering differences between cultures, it seems unlikely such refusal is determined at birth.

To be fair, there is a relatively well known hypothesis that sexual orientation is not firmly placed along a dotted line on one particular dot labelled "Straight", "Gay", "Bi" &c.
However, most of us identify with one of these as the closest description of our feelings. For instance, I'm attracted to both men and women fairly equally, it really depends on the individual. I always have been that way so far back as I can remember being attracted to people.

(February 19, 2013 at 4:03 pm)John V Wrote:

(February 19, 2013 at 4:01 pm)Ryantology Wrote: The thing is, whether or not sexual orientation is a choice is completely irrelevant.

You all thought it was relevant before the evidence stacked up against you.

Huh. I was willing to let all that go, until you said this. Now you've asked for it: since you're so into evidence, let's take a closer look at the evidence you presented, shall we?

Your study's sample group was 98 people, or as we in the scientific community like to say, "criminally small." All of those 98 people were members of Exodus International, indicating some psychological desire to change on their part, possibly enough to be invested enough to trick themselves. The length of time each member of the sample group had been involved in the program varied quite a bit (one to three years) meaning that the individual experiences make it quite hard to draw any valid conclusions.

Of this group, only 11 people reported any change in their attractions, and none of those reported a complete reversal, only that they had become slightly more attracted to the opposite sex as a result of the program. We can put this down quite easily to psychological investment in the program, but even if we didn't, this is a laughably small change. Anecdotally, at least one of the participants later recanted, saying he lied about the change, and is now living as an out gay man.

So, the evidence is hardly stacked against us, John. You simply didn't read your own citation's findings before declaring your position correct by fiat. Big difference.