(February 28, 2013 at 11:38 pm)Drich Wrote: Like for instance some of you claim you can not believe in God with out evidence. Christ is saying if you simply ask with the smallest measure of faith, God will move the obstical standing in your way. Not just move it a little bit, but pick it up and throw it into the sea.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, if I had faith in god, he'd remove my need for evidence? Now that is demonstrably dangerous. You're not making him sound too appealing with that.

I depend on a need for evidence to survive in life.

(March 1, 2013 at 12:00 am)Question Mark Wrote:

(February 28, 2013 at 11:38 pm)Drich Wrote: Like for instance some of you claim you can not believe in God with out evidence. Christ is saying if you simply ask with the smallest measure of faith, God will move the obstical standing in your way. Not just move it a little bit, but pick it up and throw it into the sea.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, if I had faith in god, he'd remove my need for evidence? Now that is demonstrably dangerous. You're not making him sound too appealing with that.

I depend on a need for evidence to survive in life.

Once you have it, then what? Are you one that constantly needs to be reassured? Do you keep a hammer and a feather on your night stand to test and see if Graveity still works before you get out of bed every morning?

Or once that it has been established the need for constant evidence,testing and proof gets tossed aside because now you know what to look for to know that it is working?

(March 1, 2013 at 12:47 am)Drich Wrote:

(March 1, 2013 at 12:00 am)Question Mark Wrote: Whoa, whoa, whoa, if I had faith in god, he'd remove my need for evidence? Now that is demonstrably dangerous. You're not making him sound too appealing with that.

I depend on a need for evidence to survive in life.

Once you have it, then what? Are you one that constantly needs to be reassured? Do you keep a hammer and a feather on your night stand to test and see if Graveity still works before you get out of bed every morning?

Or once that it has been established the need for constant evidence,testing and proof gets tossed aside because now you know what to look for to know that it is working?

We're getting into the murky distinction between reasonable expectations, such as gravity, the sun rising, my body being hungry later, and faith, believing in something without evidence.
I've seen multiple points of evidence for the effects of gravity, the sun rising, my body getting hungry, but I've seen nothing that indicates a god. I'm not going to start off believing something before its proven. That's called gullibility.

(March 1, 2013 at 12:57 am)Question Mark Wrote:

(March 1, 2013 at 12:47 am)Drich Wrote: Once you have it, then what? Are you one that constantly needs to be reassured? Do you keep a hammer and a feather on your night stand to test and see if Graveity still works before you get out of bed every morning?

Or once that it has been established the need for constant evidence,testing and proof gets tossed aside because now you know what to look for to know that it is working?

We're getting into the murky distinction between reasonable expectations, such as gravity, the sun rising, my body being hungry later, and faith, believing in something without evidence.
I've seen multiple points of evidence for the effects of gravity, the sun rising, my body getting hungry, but I've seen nothing that indicates a god. I'm not going to start off believing something before its proven. That's called gullibility.

What if it were up to you to prove it? Would you make the effort?

(February 28, 2013 at 12:18 pm)ronedee Wrote: To have Faith, one must first find the Truth. And where is that found?

Anything man is involved in is tainted and a lie. We can make anything to suit our views or needs. And reality is still based on what "we" deem is the one brilliant individual, or group of individuals that say its so!

I'm sorry, but man is flawed. And you can get as many opinions and/or answers on a given subject as you have people in a room! So who's right?

The real teacher is the Holy Spirit. Jesus said for us to "look within, and find the kingdom of Heaven".

Jesus=Love=Truth=Faith=God. There is no lie in that sentence!

So, don't look for us for answers to finding Faith! You already know the answer....you just refuse to acknowledge it!

And...anything else is a lie, or God having to prove something He feels is self evident in LIFE itself!

You are fucking beyond help, aren't you?

Pretty much. Man makes stuff up and is flawed. The Holy text is true and jesus existed and said these things. How do we know? Because God said so. And who reported that he said so, a man. And could the man have erred or lied? No, because God inspired him. But how do we know God inspired him. Because the man said so. But is the man flawed and prone to error? Yes. So how do you know what is true? It is what is in my heart? But is that not just you talking to you, and is flawed? No, because I have a love of God and his holy spirit fills me? How do you know? Because I feel it. Is that not flawed? No because God said so...

Round and round and round we go...

You have to wonder why Christians love atheist sites? My guess is, to be like Jesus - to suffer! (And to suffer others!)

Drich Wrote:I took a 25K dollar loan on faith from a stranger to start a business.

Sorry... You're the one who took the loan? Am I missing something?

(March 1, 2013 at 1:54 am)Drich Wrote:

(March 1, 2013 at 12:57 am)Question Mark Wrote: We're getting into the murky distinction between reasonable expectations, such as gravity, the sun rising, my body being hungry later, and faith, believing in something without evidence.
I've seen multiple points of evidence for the effects of gravity, the sun rising, my body getting hungry, but I've seen nothing that indicates a god. I'm not going to start off believing something before its proven. That's called gullibility.

What if it were up to you to prove it? Would you make the effort?

I have made the effort. Do you think I just up and decided one day "Oh believing in god is just too much trouble, I'm gonna be an atheist".
Truth is a rather important thing in my opinion. And I'm still mad at you by the way.

(March 1, 2013 at 1:54 am)Drich Wrote: What if it were up to you to prove it? Would you make the effort?

Why are we obligated to go looking for proof of something we don't believe in?

If your case is so strong, should you not be able to prove it to us? If something is real, it doesn't need faith to sustain it.

(March 1, 2013 at 6:28 am)rexbeccarox Wrote:

Drich Wrote:I took a 25K dollar loan on faith from a stranger to start a business.

Sorry... You're the one who took the loan? Am I missing something?

What a world, what a world...

It used to be a big deal to take a loan. One would only ever take a loan if he Knew that without doubt he could pay it back. To take the risk of a 25K loan on something like a new business was beyond a leap of faith. especially when neither one of us really knew anything about how to run a business.

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(March 1, 2013 at 10:24 am)Question Mark Wrote: I have made the effort.

Without doubt you made a strong 'religious' effort. Now ask yourself did your 'religious effort' match what Christ told us to do?

Quote:Do you think I just up and decided one day "Oh believing in god is just too much trouble, I'm gonna be an atheist".
Truth is a rather important thing in my opinion.

Do you believe it any less important to me?

Quote:And I'm still mad at you by the way.

so is 99% of everyone else on this website.

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(March 1, 2013 at 10:36 am)Esquilax Wrote: Why are we obligated to go looking for proof of something we don't believe in?

Your not, that is why I asked would you..
You are only obligated if you want to know God.

Quote:If your case is so strong, should you not be able to prove it to us? If something is real, it doesn't need faith to sustain it.

Again Absolutly no faith is needed to sustain a relationship with God.

Only the Faith of a Mustard seed is needed to establish a connection with God. Once you can expend this tiny amount of faith, God will show up. When He does faith will no longer be needed.

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(March 1, 2013 at 6:03 am)EGross Wrote: Pretty much. Man makes stuff up and is flawed. The Holy text is true and jesus existed and said these things. How do we know? Because God said so. And who reported that he said so, a man. And could the man have erred or lied? No, because God inspired him. But how do we know God inspired him. Because the man said so. But is the man flawed and prone to error? Yes. So how do you know what is true? It is what is in my heart? But is that not just you talking to you, and is flawed? No, because I have a love of God and his holy spirit fills me? How do you know? Because I feel it. Is that not flawed? No because God said so...

Round and round and round we go...

You have to wonder why Christians love atheist sites? My guess is, to be like Jesus - to suffer! (And to suffer others!)

You are speaking for a strictly historical persepective. Which is why your arguement does not work. The Historical aspect of the bible is to simply help you establish an active connection. Once you establish a connection with God you will know that the bible is true because He will write it's precepts onto your Heart.