(February 28, 2013 at 2:47 am)justin Wrote: What was you're first clue? Oppression of women, suicide bombers, foundation for large terrorist groups? Every religion is a religion of "peace" in the context of it being power. Fuck'em

Maybe they meant religion of "pieces" that's why the suicide bombs.

(March 2, 2013 at 5:55 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: One clear weakness in Democracy, that all people have equal votes
for example a group of illiterate, ignorant people can decide about something that can affect all
the nation just because they are more in numbers

Every human is equal and has the equal rights, which may be hard to understand for a person being so backwards he supports slavery.


+

Within the relaims of a democracy no participant can make a ultimate claim to truth and power, thereby making a change of power possible and also pragmatism and diolog between different points of view.

Whilest a Kalifat isnt that different from the USSR, the third reich or any other totalitarian state = opposition is silenced and one political elite has a unquestionable claim to power and truth.

It thereby infringes the rights guaranteed to every human being.

And therefor deserves to be destroyed.

(March 2, 2013 at 5:55 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: One clear weakness in Democracy, that all people have equal votes
for example a group of illiterate, ignorant people can decide about something that can affect all
the nation just because they are more in numbers

Being ignorant and illiterate does not mean that you cannot have a say in who gets to govern you. You of all people should understand that.

(March 2, 2013 at 12:32 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote: Every human is equal and has the equal rights, which may be hard to understand for a person being so backwards he supports slavery.

That's your problem
You put premises and consider them as facts
No, not all people are equal (even in a secular system)

According to Islam people are not equal, God gave each individual some talents, weaknesses and bounties
God will expect every person to use what he got to obey God
A poor person won't be treated as a rich person (God will expect a rich person to help people more and give charity, etc.)
God treat people with Justice not equality

A believer will not be treated as a non-believer (in this life or the hereafter)
This conform with the concept of good and bad,
The point is, If Islam is the true religion it makes absolute sense
If not it won't make it more false
I.e. you cannot use it as a refutation of Islam

Quote:And therefor deserves to be destroyed.

From the point view of non-Muslims, yes and God wanted you to try!

Quote:True beliefs should be based on proofs, conclusion and observations as well

Then you are fucked, Abdul. All you've got is an absurd book of dubious authorship.

(March 4, 2013 at 2:43 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: The point is, If Islam is the true religion it makes absolute sense
If not it won't make it more false

That makes no sense.

Religion is about oppression, forcing people into a specific structure with a heirarcy setting requirements. And it's about power and growth. You cannot grow a religion by giving more freedoms, only by suppressing them and getting internal agreement. Suppress the rights of women and get the men to go along with it, since it is to their advantage. Suppress the rights of the next group and the next, getting internal support for this.

This rationalization of "since you were born this way, you get these rewards/punishments" is based on ignorance. And the more freedom people get, the more that such a lies is exposed for what it is. The growing number of secularlists in Egypt is a good example. The head is trying to maintain a theocracy with bits of freedom, but not enough to undermine the religious requirements, while the secularlists want it all gotten rid of. They want true freedom, which is that religion can exist, but not as a power, only as an option for those who want it, with no authority.

One day, people will look back at this time and shake their head in wonder the same way they do when they see old photos of "Whites" over one entrance and "Coloreds" over another, or photos of women trying to get the vote. Or pictures of children in forced labor.

No one is born with special rights. Talent is one thing, rights is another. A child raised as a Muslim gets no more reward at the end than one born as a Catholic, despite that both are brainwashed into believing otherwise. And one is no more special than the other by right of birth.

You statement makes no sense at all.

We're still waiting for you to prove Islam. What's the hold up?

It's more of a disprove than a prove, isn't it? Or maybe a combination of the two.

How do you disprove that "Allah is a sick dysfuntional God made up by his bitch, Mohammed, to subvert and control the masses"?

How can one disprove that the God in the Koran is not a sick and twisted entity? How does one prove that he even exists?
What Mohammed's intentions were, cannot really be known. You can try to summize the past based on the present. Was he really as twisted as the God he made?
And given that the Koran is no different than the bible in its holiness and "divine authorship", how does one prove it's authenticity?

It's really an impossible task. For the infidel, all we need to do is discount the existance of a God, and the rest falls apart. For a true believer, to cause another to believe, there needs to be a belief in God, and then you can manipulate the rest with stories and twisted logic and reinterpreting an unholy text. But that doesn't work for the majority here.

So I don't really expect a proof, since it really is a herculean task for the believer, while for we infidels have that "Aw, that's bullshit" trump card for every proof.

(March 4, 2013 at 4:05 am)EGross Wrote: It's more of a disprove than a prove, isn't it? Or maybe a combination of the two.

Good point as well

The statement of accepting islam starts with denying not accepting

"There is no God"
then
"But Allah"

So it is about disproving other Gods, then Proving Allah

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(March 4, 2013 at 3:30 am)EGross Wrote: Religion is about oppression, forcing people into a specific structure with a heirarcy setting requirements. And it's about power and growth. You cannot grow a religion by giving more freedoms, only by suppressing them and getting internal agreement. Suppress the rights of women and get the men to go along with it, since it is to their advantage. Suppress the rights of the next group and the next, getting internal support for this.

Yes, who said that religion is about freedom
We are slaves not free people
It seems that your problem is not about proofs it is about accepting the concepts of Worshiping itself

Let me give you an example to clarify the situation
You own a company and you have employees
They work for the benefit of the company
There are three people A, B, C
A: he is very clever and working very hard for your company
B: Is not so clever but trying his best
C: is very clever but playing Golf at time of work

A you will give him salary + Bonus
B you will give him just his salary
C you will punish or fire him

Quote:No one is born with special rights. Talent is one thing, rights is another. A child raised as a Muslim gets no more reward at the end than one born as a Catholic, despite that both are brainwashed into believing otherwise. And one is no more special than the other by right of birth.
You statement makes no sense at all.

This is something you cannot prove or disprove (it is valid or invalid depending on the realm of religions)

(March 4, 2013 at 2:43 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: That's your problem
You put premises and consider them as facts
No, not all people are equal (even in a secular system)

According to Islam people are not equal, God gave each individual some talents, weaknesses and bounties
God will expect every person to use what he got to obey God
A poor person won't be treated as a rich person (God will expect a rich person to help people more and give charity, etc.)
God treat people with Justice not equality

A believer will not be treated as a non-believer (in this life or the hereafter)
This conform with the concept of good and bad,
The point is, If Islam is the true religion it makes absolute sense
If not it won't make it more false
I.e. you cannot use it as a refutation of Islam

Yes I can. Because our current western sociaties asre structured in a way which allows all people to reach every possible social status through their own work.
A system which doesnt discriminate and therefor doesnt create "Untermenschen", as your system does when it says that people are inequal.

From the UN charta:

Quote:What is special about us is our humanity, our being human. As humans, we can think and articulate thoughts; we also have a sense of right and wrong, which is our conscience.
Equal does not mean that we are all the same. Each of us is different in our own special way. But we also have the common qualities that make us all humans. So each of us should be treated with respect and dignity and treat others in the same way.

Actualy, you are the one who owns an exkplaination!

You should explain why certain people are "more equal than others"!!!

More importently, explain to the "Untermenschen" why they deserve less rights than you and what makes you the master race!

Quote:From the point view of non-Muslims, yes and God wanted you to try!

No. From the point of view of every human being who demands equal rights, a right to self determination, who opposes slavery and is against tyranny!